MOTORTREND Head 2 Head (more in-depth look from Inde) -ZL1 TAKES ON BOSS VIDEO :D

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Haha, exactly.

I think that ParisTNDude's intent was to say, "Out of 162 posts on the thread, there are 3 posts that agree with you."

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

No, I don't believe that Pete is saying that. Why do you ask?

He said it rains when he goes out driving, sounds like he needs some serious handling when he drives any car can drive fine in the rain pretty much up to the driver.

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Ohhhh I see now you are changing it to model instead of HP.....

I never changed it, you just took out the part where I said the boss is the little brother... you're not making yourself look any better by taking out parts of my post.
you're definitely not helping your point either, it's always been top model vs top model as far as fair goes.

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I think that ParisTNDude's intent was to say, "Out of 162 posts on the thread, there are 3 posts that agree with you."

Out of 162 posts I'll bet you and I made up for 40-50. See you guys even skew the numbers in your favor in an argument about an argument.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Yes and I'm not impressed that is has won this test. For 10K more with all of it's option it should be a better car. Just like I wasn't impressed when the Z06 and GT500 was tested. The Z06 should win.

I am not impressed by magazine test or opinions on a forum. I am impressed or not by what I feel when I drive a car. My guess is you feel the same way?

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

People on this forum claimed puppy kicking when they put the ss against gt500 because it has 124 less HP... but now it's not puppy kicking when the gt500's little brother has 136 less hp????

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

I never changed it, you just took out the part where I said the boss is the little brother... you're not making yourself look any better.

I guess im confused because it sure looks like you were talking about HP....

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The BOSS LS is a ZL1 Wannabe
The 2013 is a ZL1 Wannabe

If Ford ever put them together they would have a real car, almost as good as a ZL1.

There is no riddle. I was in the ZL1 mule back in 2008 at the Milford Proving Grounds. The GT500 is nothing more than Ford's PANIC attack reaction to the capabilities of the ZL1.

Take your Mustang day dreams to a Mustang forum and smoke the Ford hopium with your buddies.

So then you've already tested a 2013 gt500? odd that you did that in 08 and speak with such certainty

[radz28]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

I agree. The stage has been set for an incredible battle.

Absolutely! It will be interesting to see how things work out on different lengths of tracks. On a track, like the 'Ring, I can see that if the GT500 doesn't quite make it around the corners as good as ZL1, that there are some good straights where the power could make up, at least a little, for that. On short tracks, like in this comparison, where power doesn't make up for a lot (at least in this particular instance), I think the highlights and low-lights of the chassis' will be expressed.

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Now wouldn't it be great if the ZL1 pulls out the win..... I think it's possible.

I think there are going to be circumstances where that's the case, but that a lot of power, in addition to a bit of a weight advantage, to overcome. They'll both be on similar-sized same tires (as far as I understand) and we'll see how the chassis' react. If reports were true about the Mustang being build on a 300-horsepower-car chassis, that torque could really put a hurtin' to the car if it's not braced correctly... It's going to be great

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

No because they are the top two models.
the boss is the gt500's little brother.

the zl1 is the top dog camaro, vs the top dog mustang which is the gt500.
It would be very fair between the two top dogs, not top dog vs little brother.

I think he was being sacrastic, but I honestly don't know for sure However - it's hard not to say SS wasn't the top dog at the time either...

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

I'm not the one that refuses to look at more than the fact that a win is a win.

We're the Goodyear supercars designed exclusively for the ZL1? The splitter sticks out too far for crash standards. The track key isn't legal in CA because they are bunch of hippies and the exhaust bypasses the mufflers, not an earth shattering advantage there.

On top of that, what is the price of the N/A, straight axle LS?

I'm confused... But...

Allegedly - the tire sizes were specifically designed for ZL1. Is that wrong? The G2s are also going to be on the GT500 if I understand correctly. And what is the point? The LS is equipped with competition tires, which are DOT-legal race tires; ZL1 is not equipped as such. Those tires provide more grip, and probably at least make up for the larger footprint of ZL1s meats. Because from the beginning, when the engineers were making sure the Zeta chassis would be right for CAMARO, Al O. (I believe that's who it was) made sure it would be able to take heavier duty driveline and bigger tires for a performance variant that would end up being ZL1. They made sure the floor pan could fit a bigger pumpkin and and larger tires and wheels. Is that wrong that GM had looked into the future to make a high-performance car? The splitter - okay... it's functional, and adds downforce pushing the nose down to bite harder... and it's no one's fault Ford didn't think to make sure to validate the Track Key for CA (and I agree with your sentiments); I'm not sure what your point about the mufflers is. There's no problem with the exhaust in CA to my knowledge; only the Track Key which changes the computer calibrations for the motor and chassis.

I don't know where you're going with the price, because that's something like $48K. I don't know what you mean.

Originally Posted by Unobtainium

I think GM used the 2011 gt500, so the 2012 is the fair test. Ford knew this, and bumped the power to try and make up for their shortcomings on the chassis.
The car makes 200hp more than the boss, but weighs more.
I'd be surprised if the GT500 doesn't own the ZL1. It's expected based on the specs. Given the same basic weight, the GT500's better launch control, and more power, the drag times will not be very close. Road course times will be comparable.

I don't know that it's LC is better than ZL1's. I know the PTM in the 'Vettes control damper settings for weight transfer in LC, and though I haven't seen any such referrence from GM for ZL1, we do know that ZL1 has the newest generation MR; all other MR models in GM are on the Gen II MR. MRC is active, where the GT500 is adjustable, but not active. Being ZL1 monitors conditions 50-times a second during launch, taking into account barometer, temperature and anticipates traction, I don't know that I could agree that the GT500's LC is better. It certainly isn't as smart and isn't active. I agree with many of your other comments though.

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I am not impressed by magazine test or opinions on a forum. I am impressed or not by what I feel when I drive a car. My guess is you feel the same way?

It's a possibility. I don't hate the car. I am very disappointed by the lack of a forged rotation assembly because I mod my cars.

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I guess im confused because it sure looks like you were talking about HP....

Do I really have to mention how the ZL1 is the top dog camaro and the boss is NOT the top dog mustang in the beginning of every post? I thought it was a give-in...

for now do I start a post with that subject? do you can understand? lol

do you agree on this...

the ZL1 is the top camaro and the GT500 is the top mustang?

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Yes and I'm not impressed that is has won this test. For 10K more with all of it's option it should be a better car.

The base price difference between the ZL1 and the Boss 302 LS is about $6,000.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

He said it rains when he goes out driving, sounds like he needs some serious handling when he drives any car can drive fine in the rain pretty much up to the driver.

Let me see. What would I prefere to drive on a wet road.

a. A Mustang with 650 HP and single wheel brake S/TC
b. A ZL1 with the most advanced MRC system, more advanced than the MRC on a Ferrari, and an advanced Wet Performance mode S/TC


Oooh tough choice here. Let me think a nano second. I'll take b!

[YourBlindingBias]

You can drive a 800hp car in the rain, its up to you to respect the car.
Cars don't drive themselves.

[Unobtainium]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Let try this again. The ZL1 should beat the LS. It has more advantages than disadvantages.

I think the same is true of the new 13. It's lighter, and more powerful. I think the only place the Z has a chance is on the road course. I still think it will be bested slightly. If it isn't, it would be a large failure by Ford.
I think this war is good for both sides though. We are getting better cars quickly.