MOTORTREND Head 2 Head (more in-depth look from Inde) -ZL1 TAKES ON BOSS VIDEO :D

[Rock36]

Edsel B. Falcon made me LOL

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Once again, have I said I have or have not driven a 2013 and do you really want me to make a list of the Mustang Chassis shortcomings?

How can you state things as fact about a car you haven't driven?
that's my point.

[Unobtainium]

Originally Posted by 69NMYSS

Was there a change between '11 and '12 GT500?

Not that I know of on any great scale. I just know that the 2011 gt500 had a decent update, and was around when the Zl1 was being finalized spec-wise. I've heard though that they were actually building to the corvette gs. It seems typical that each company snubs the other saying they use their own products as their benchmark. Like Ford saying they used the GT Supercar for the 13 Shelby.
The GT was fantastic in its day( I've worked on and driven one) but its out of date and isn't all that impressive compared to the ZR1. I think they look timeless, and sound far better than any mustang I've heard( built exhausts for quite a few of all flavors, along with one for a GT Supercar), but it's not the competition, and what else would they say?
200mph is undeniably cool. They are estimating the car at 11.5@125mph for most drivers. That's quick indeed.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by 69NMYSS

Ahh, an option that the ZL1 failed to provide. Still very upset about this

yep, it would have been somewhat the icing on the cake.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Detroit -- General Motor spokesperson Edsel B. Falcon stated today, "It is with deep regret that we at General Motor have today decided to cancel the Camaro ZL1 program. It was a difficult decision and there were several factors involved in this decision. One was the ongoing Quality Control issues that were encountered during initial productions of the ZL1, another was the fact that in tests conducted by the automotive press, the ZL1 was barely able to out perform the Boss 302 LS, and third and most importantly was that it became obvious to us that the 2013 670 HP GT500 was sure to outperform the the ZL1 in every way both on the track and at the drag strip, and we just didn't want to have our customers be embarrassed at those venues."

The ZL1 was intended to be Chevrolet's top performing Camaro with a supercharged engine producing 580 HP and 556 lb-ft of torque, and its suspension was to have GM's third generation Magnetic Ride Control. One Wall Street analyst was quoted as saying, "This may be the biggest American corporate gaffe since New Coke was pulled from the market in 1985."

Mr. Falcon stated that GM issued a private apology to customers who had pre-ordered ZL1's through their dealers stating that each of those customers would receive a 1/18th scale model of the ZL1 instead. One potential ZL1 customer said, "I'm really bummed. I've been waiting for years for this car, and now all I get is this crummy little model. I guess the blue oval guys really know what they're doing. I never thought I'd end up having a Ford in my driveway, since I've been a Chevy guy for 35 years."

One General Motors designer who worked on the ZL1 program, who asked to remain anonymous, said, "We just really underestimated the guys in Dearborn, and we spent too much time resting on our laurels."

Mr. Falcon stated that the few hundred ZL1s that were already produced would be become part of GM's Camaro crash test fleet.

It was suggested by Mr. Falcon that those who had been interested in purchasing the ZL1 could instead purchase a Camaro SS, put forged internals in the engine, and bolt on a supercharger, which may end up costing less money than a ZL1 would have cost anyway.

There has been speculation that GM may produce a Z28 Camaro, which for many years had been the top Camaro model, but no official word has been announced, since a Z28 may not arrive until the lighter, next generation of Camaro is released.

General Motors stock was down in after hours trading after the announcement.

good one GB.

Quick, someone please show this to Drake!!!

[2ndCamaro79]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

good one GB.

Quick, someone please show this to Drake!!!

I'll break it to him easy

[69NMYSS]

Originally Posted by Unobtainium

Not that I know of on any great scale. I just know that the 2011 gt500 had a decent update, and was around when the Zl1 was being finalized spec-wise. I've heard though that they were actually building to the corvette gs. It seems typical that each company snubs the other saying they use their own products as their benchmark. Like Ford saying they used the GT Supercar for the 13 Shelby.
The GT was fantastic in its day( I've worked on and driven one) but its out of date and isn't all that impressive compared to the ZR1. I think they look timeless, and sound far better than any mustang I've heard( built exhausts for quite a few of all flavors, along with one for a GT Supercar), but it's not the competition, and what else would they say?
200mph is undeniably cool. They are estimating the car at 11.5@125mph for most drivers. That's quick indeed.

Who is "they"?

[Unobtainium]

Originally Posted by 69NMYSS

Who is "they"?

Evan Smith and the crew at MM&FF. They got to drag test a mule a while back. They wouldn't say what number they got, just an estimate as to what they think the car will do. I do believe that was the same time highly decorated drag racer Evan Smith said that the launch control was so good that most everybody should use it to get the best times.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by Unobtainium

Not that I know of on any great scale. I just know that the 2011 gt500 had a decent update, and was around when the Zl1 was being finalized spec-wise. I've heard though that they were actually building to the corvette gs. It seems typical that each company snubs the other saying they use their own products as their benchmark. Like Ford saying they used the GT Supercar for the 13 Shelby.
The GT was fantastic in its day( I've worked on and driven one) but its out of date and isn't all that impressive compared to the ZR1. I think they look timeless, and sound far better than any mustang I've heard( built exhausts for quite a few of all flavors, along with one for a GT Supercar), but it's not the competition, and what else would they say?
200mph is undeniably cool. They are estimating the car at 11.5@125mph for most drivers. That's quick indeed.

Actually Ford (Jamal Hameedi) claims to have adjusted the 2013 GT500 off the Boss 302 as well...and if you think about it, I think it makes sense. Regardless of any conspiracies, or trying to read minds, a company does need to align their product correctly. So it makes sense they need an even distribution of performance between the V6, GT, 302, GT500. To say the ZL1 had zero influence might be a stretch, but a car company does have to mind their own products too and avoid cannibalizing sales.

Posted again for reference: http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/1...he-camaro-zl1/

[Drake Heminger]

It's believable I mean why else would they halt production? Also this was confirmed and is indeed factual... Bummed but better that not have came then came
And be taken away

[Scarrzz]

.

After reading a largish portion of this thread, all I can think is:

....

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Drake Heminger

It's believable I mean why else would they halt production? Also this was confirmed and is indeed factual... Bummed but better that not have came then came
And be taken away

^^^

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

How can you state things as fact about a car you haven't driven?
that's my point.

I have never driven water, but I do know it is wet. I cannot confirm nor deny what I have or have not driven that has yet to be released by any company.

I can melt my 305 30s on my Mustang with far less RWHP than the 2013 so it doesn't take any particular genius or insider knowledge to know that the tires on the GT500 are going to melt as fast or faster. Or that the three link geometry lifts the inside wheel harder, faster and higher the faster you corner. That the one wheel brake S/TC will be working overtime. That the three link will strain under the load. That the stamped steel third arm and mount are not up to the task, that the stamped sheet-metal mild steel rear chassis brace is too light, that the rear wheel alignment will be out of whack with no adjustment from the factory... yes I know there will be an upgraded diff and that will help, but no where near enough...why do I bother

[JusticePete]

Another EPIC FAIL by a different MFG.

DETROIT (Reuters) -- A $100,000-plus Fisker Automotive luxury car died during Consumer Reports speed testing for reasons that are still unknown, leaving the struggling electric car startup with another blow to its image.

These are the disasters that keep brand managers and company executives awake at night.