2012 gt500 vs 2012 Zl1

[MauriSSio]

i dont see why justice peet is getting so offended. Nobody here is putting down the ZL1. Sensitive much? Not the best way to represent his company i think.

[Stinkycheese916]

Welcome to camaro5 where every Camaro owner is a professional race car driver & vehicle tester.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Rock36

Up front, I fully admit these are simply my own observations, but I'm also a member of multiple forums: BMW, Corvette, Mustang, Camaro to name a few....all cars I own, have owned, or have come close to owning. However, Camaro5 is the only forum I visit regularly where I see so many people come to talk about cars other than Camaros; commonly Mustangs with some Dodges and imports sprinkled in there for good measure. If they do talk about Camaros, it is invariably about how their particular car relates to the Camaro.

I see more Mustang owners in this Camaro forum posting about Mustangs, than I have ever seen Camaro owners regularly/incessantly posting at stangnet, modularfords, or moddedmustangs about Camaros. Sure it happens, and there are always trolls, but not like it happens here at Camaro5. Likewise, I rarely see GTR or Viper fans constantly posting in Corvetteforums about their GTRs and Vipers, and I hardly see Audi guys coming to my BMW forums to endlessly "discuss" how the S4 stacks up against the 335i... again it happens, but not like it does here.

Personally, I also love Porsches, I live 20 minutes from the Porsche museum in Zuffenhausen. I visit the museum all the time and ogle the displays at the dealership across the street, but you will never find me on a Porsche forum where the majority of my posts are about how my Z06 performs relative to the latest 911 Carrera S.

There are a lot of guys who claim to be car enthusiasts, but curiously some of those same car enthusiasts have a singular focus on the cars they chose to talk about here, and it isn't always the Camaro.

Not saying that is you in particular, or that you aren't a general enthusiast of cars, but I certainly do not envy the moderators of this forum who have to sit a read through post after post about the merits of cars that aren't Camaros on Camaro5.com of all places.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

Last time I checked the Ferrari FF has BWI 3rd Generation Magnetorheological Dampers. Not to take away from the rest of that....

You could be right. I thought the 458 used second generation along with the Audi R8. Prompted by your post I found 3rd Gen system, I would never have guessed, is in the Land Rover’s Evoque If the Evoque has them there may well be a Ferrari with them or others brands.

[YourBlindingBias]

Don't ASSume lol

[NoWRX]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Tob,

There is a huge difference between discussions and bickering. We'll discuss all day long. The bickering and chest thumping are absolutely not welcome here. It is no different than walking into a neighborhood bar where you are a complete stranger and watching a Bears game. Cheering for the Packers isn't a problem until you start screaming the Bears suck. For a period of time it is amusing. Then it becomes annoying. Eventually one of the regulars will show you the door or worse. Bad manners are bad manners.

Honestly, if you're going to sit here and trash <xyz> car using less than intelligent logic and reasoning while trumpeting the virtues of <abc> car, don't be surprised if someone starts to point out the glaring fallacies of your argument and the weaknesses of <abc> car.

In short, you're partially responsible for the responses that you receive. I don't think anyone was trashing the ZL1 here, they were just pointing out the readily apparent deficiencies of your reasoning here in criticizing the GT500.

Am I the judge and jury here? Yes, I have taken on that roll based on the offensive behavior of a few guests and until the C5 moderators ask me to stop.

Don't break your arm patting your own back, I'm not impressed. Honestly, if I were a Camaro owner, I'd really you rather not speak for the ownership as a whole. You don't represent the community well and that's a compliment to the vast majority of Camaro owners here - they seem like great people, in general.

i dont see why justice peet is getting so offended. Nobody here is putting down the ZL1. Sensitive much? Not the best way to represent his company i think.

This says a lot - when even your own fellow Camaro owners don't support your behavior.

But it's completely cool for You guys to come over here and take shots at us and the ZL1?

Why don't you go ahead and point out where that has happened in this thread? Go on, I'm waiting. Perhaps you should get your own house in order here before villifying the Mustang fans, take a look at who started this thread - it wasn't a Mustang owner. If you want to blame the Mustang owners for insisting on discussing this particular topic, perhaps you should open your eyes and realize who keeps on starting and perpetuating these debates as well. It takes two to tango.

We're sick and tired of you thinking you are entitled to have equal representation here.

No one's demanding representation here, but you could be more open to intelligent, friendly debate without the incessant need to ban someone the minute they say something complimentary to <abc> car or critical of <xyz> car.

Look, I've been on car forums for over 12 years now for a number of different cars. I've been on certain forums actively for over a decade, and I've never seen a forum as bigoted and as parochial as this one is. Owning a Mustang around here is like being an African American in the south in the 1960s. I've never been on a forum where someone will hate you solely for owning <abc> car, let alone the moderatorship.

Tell me, if one sided discussions are what you desire, why have a "Camaro vs. All" forum at all? Is that just so you can feed your egos by ripping on other brands/makes?

If you need a place to champion the GT500 go to a mustang forum please.

Again, why even have this debate in the first place if you don't want anything complimentary said about the GT500? You might as well lock any Mustang vs Camaro thread immediately if you don't want to hear both sides of the argument.

If it bothers you to have a person with a different brand car on your forum, I wonder how you would feel if I moved into the house next to you.

Indeed. Again, I don't see anyone here trashing the Camaro. It just seems to be a case of, "I don't like you because you own a Mustang and you shouldn't be allowed to speak". The fact that they don't want dissenting opinions disseminated here should tell you a lot.

Not saying that is you in particular, or that you aren't a general enthusiast of cars, but I certainly do not envy the moderators of this forum who have to sit a read through post after post about the merits of cars that aren't Camaros on Camaro5.com of all places.

What did they expect with a forum titled "Camaro vs All"?

If the ownership here was intelligent, they'd embrace it. The Camaro vs Mustang rivalry is nearly 50 years old and is as storied as the Yankees vs the Red Sox, Cardinals vs. Cubs, Giants vs. Eagles, etc. When I go to a Cards-Cubs game at Wrigley, I don't see Cubs fans beating up Cardinals fans and kicking them out of the stadium, which is akin to what I see the management doing around here.

If they were smart, they'd foster a climate suitable for intelligent debate and welcome owners of other cars with open arms. Doing so boosts traffic to the website and participants which in turn drives your ad revenue. Booting everyone you don't like solely because they own a different kind of car isn't conducive to that goal, and is it a bit like cutting off your own nose to spite your face - they're only screwing themselves in the long run.

This ain't my first rodeo and I understand how the forum business works. Many a forum has turned into a cesspool because of exactly this kind of behavior.

You might be well respected here, but I really don't see why. Your behavior is pretty childish and arrogant.

Agreed. Again, for someone who portrays himself as the champion of Camaro owners everywhere, I wouldn't want him representing me or the community as a whole if I were a Camaro owner. He basically comes in here and picks a fight, and then gets his panties in a twist when people start blowing locomotive sized holes in his reasoning and logic.

[YourBlindingBias]

I don't see why they just don't delete the camaro vs section.
How do you complain about other cars discussion in the CAMARO VS SECTION!?

[Rock36]

Perhaps the "vs." section just needs to be taken down all together. Most other car forums do just fine with simply an "other cars" section, and they are not plagued with this much bickering... and that goes for both sides.

I personally think the "vs." sections gives people an excuse to join Camaro5 solely to argue about cars under the guise of "car enthusiasm" and "intelligent debate".

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

I don't see why they just don't delete the camaro vs section.
How do you complain about other cars discussion in the CAMARO VS SECTION!?

Ha you beat me to it.

I would also like to add to my earlier sentiment that other forums do have racing sections, but those also tend to be people reflecting on their own times/racing experience and not all the bench racing and speculation based on anecdotal evidence about what "I saw at this one time at my local track."

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

But it's completely cool for You guys to come over here and take shots at us and the ZL1?

The point Pete is trying to make is completely lost on you. Hence why our intolerance for GT500 supporters / ZL1 detractors is so great.

We're sick and tired of you thinking you are entitled to have equal representation here.

If you need a place to champion the GT500 go to a mustang forum please.

Fair enough?

Only a sith deals in absolutes....or the Camaro 5 moderation team.

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Only a sith deals in absolutes....or the Camaro 5 moderation team.

See sig

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

See sig

[priz23]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheese916

Welcome to camaro5 where every Camaro owner is a professional race car driver & vehicle tester.

And a tad bit sensitive.

[Tob]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Tob,

There is a huge difference between discussions and bickering. We'll discuss all day long. The bickering and chest thumping are absolutely not welcome here. It is no different than walking into a neighborhood bar where you are a complete stranger and watching a Bears game. Cheering for the Packers isn't a problem until you start screaming the Bears suck. For a period of time it is amusing. Then it becomes annoying. Eventually one of the regulars will show you the door or worse. Bad manners are bad manners.

An example would be If you're referring to Gene, your Google skills have failed you. He's a vehicle dynamics engineer and lead test driver at Ford Motor Company. I searched but could not find anywhere where Ford has dubbed him as a spokesperson. Mr. Martindale was the main Ford voice in the C&D article. We have no interest in bickering over petty

Am I the judge and jury here? Yes, I have taken on that roll based on the offensive behavior of a few guests and until the C5 moderators ask me to stop.

You took his comments out of context, not me. I quoted him twice, verbatim. Do you see it as fair (or even honest) to mislead by virtue of misquoting to further an agenda? I never have and it doesn't matter if it was friend or foe. The truth is simply that - the truth. To break down his comments and show him to be wrong is something different than what you did. I could respect that.

I don't understand your 'bickering' comment either. From my corner, the comments I had were merely to get back to zero by clearing up comments that were made to contort and twist statements made by an engineer that works for Ford. That certainly isn't bickering. And most definitely isn't petty.

Then to bring up 'manners' or showing me the door? Or worse? What the heck would that be?

Pete, some advice - stay honest, open, and fair. I'm sure you can do better.

Now can we get back to an open discussion regarding the '12 GT500 vs the '12 ZL1?