12.54@111 no cool down...bone stock automatic

[gbosh]

Not enough time on the ZL1 to make any predictions on how it will perform in stock form! Like another poster said these cars need more miles on them to breakin all of the parts before making any statements about the performance. My own experience with my own 2010 SS is that after 5000 miles it started to perform much better. Also what gas is being used for these tests? Rotten gas is all over the US and it really holds back the engine performance.

[camslambam]

Originally Posted by SixGracing

It kills me how everyone expects the ZL1 to come out and run 10's stock. I have an SS and I've put about $10K into my car, no supercharger and it's running mid 12's. Mid to low 12's is very respectable. It's not like it's slow by any means. I wonder too if anyone who is bitching about these times has ever driven a 12 second car? It's GD fast! Just be happy the ZL1 is doing this stock. A few tweaks and the ZL1 is one bad mamma jamma.

My 12's are also being ran at a 5000'+ DA.

My hats off to the ZL1 for being an incredibly fast stock car..

No one thinks it'll run fast.

But 550 boosted hp trapping at 111 is embarrassing. My bolt on SS trapped higher than that.

Something is not adding up. Forget about the time. Look at the MPH.

[gbosh]

F1st pass stock ZL1 with slicks and skinnies - 11.43 @ 120.88

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100 percent stock just slicks and skinnies.
11.43 @ 120.88
found this post from Sprspt with a stock ZL1 from a few weeks ago.

[evolve]

Originally Posted by gbosh

F1st pass stock ZL1 with slicks and skinnies - 11.43 @ 120.88

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100 percent stock just slicks and skinnies.
11.43 @ 120.88
found this post from Sprspt with a stock ZL1 from a few weeks ago.

This seems normal (for any car making that power).

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by RoketRdr

Because all the safety barriers in place instructed the TCM to cut the shifts back. i.e...The ECM began to see the heat soak and heard the knock so it pulled the timing and began short shifting the transmission to keep it from hitting red line.

Concerning the transmission shift points being lowered due to "heat soak"....is this speculation, or do you have documentation that shows this?

Originally Posted by DangerouSS

I talked to a knowledgable tuner who owns two modded CTSVs and he told me that the car would heat soak after one run and you'd be down 30 HP or so after that. He highly recommended one of his heat exchangers for the car. He didn't think the improved ZL1 exchanger would be significantly better than the one in the CTSV. I guess the OPs time would Be representative of what I'd run in the heat at my local track.

If the ZL1 heat soakes so bad after one drag strip pass, what is going to happen after one lap on a road course?

[speedmon]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

If the ZL1 heat soakes so bad after one drag strip pass, what is going to happen after one lap on a road course?

It'll overheat, brakes will fade and it'll slide off into the dirt... hopefully not the wall.

Thats why I LOVE my Z06. That thing will spin 6K for 20 minutes straight and be ready for the next session...I don't run stock brakes though....wilwood.


On the 5500 shift point.....I've never really tested my DDriver SS (L99) but I just did....At WOT with traction control on it shifts at 5500, with it off 6K.

[RoketRdr]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Concerning the transmission shift points being lowered due to "heat soak"....is this speculation, or do you have documentation that shows this?

It's not not specifically directed at "heat soak". There are a number of parameters that will cause the ECM to instruct the TCM to change the shifts points. Heat soak conditions would be one of them. Its common practice by all manufacturers to not only protect the drive train from immediate damage and failure but to also reduce the possibility of paying on warranty issues down the road. It has been proven in the diesel community that this was being done and steps had to be taken to work around it. You can read about 'limp mode' in your owners manual to give you an idea of what will happen if you push the vehicle to set certain codes or exceed certain parameters. GM doesn't hide this info and makes it known. But before you get to a 'limp mode' or 'limp home' condition the ECM will do whats necessary to try and stop the damage such as changing the shift patterns and reduce power output. i.e...remove timing, short shift, cut fuel injection rates, torque management, etc. In the Duramax if you push beyond certain parameters which cause high transmission slippage it will automatically downshift and lock you into 3 gear and wont allow a speed above 60mph no matter what the throttle position is. Computer controlled cars and trucks are programmed to protect the drive train and the manufacturer and that's why tuners have had to overcome the existing fail-safe systems from the factory's. So no it's not speculation. To what extent the ZL1's ECM is controlling the TCM and shift points will have to be determined by one of the tuners who have looked at both of the tunes and addressed the issue.

[RoketRdr]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

If the ZL1 heat soakes so bad after one drag strip pass, what is going to happen after one lap on a road course?

Originally Posted by speedmon

It'll overheat, brakes will fade and it'll slide off into the dirt... hopefully not the wall.

You're forgetting that after making a full powered 1/4 mile pass you're suddenly reducing speed and just lightly cruising back to the pits with low air flow. This is where the heat soak is generated. They specifically designed the ZL1 for the road course and even developed the belly pan to direct air where it needs to be and added the proper coolers. If the car is continuously being "raced" then its being cooled. Once you shut down and reduce speed it will start heating up. GM put the ZL1 through a 24 hour straight track test to prove this. Drag racing is much harder on cars from heat generated than road course racing is because of the sudden reduction of cooling air flow.

[Bob Cosby]

Doesn't seem intuitive to this old drag racer (but seldom track runner), but time will tell, I suppose.

As far as the shift points, I'll be intested to hear what tuners have to say, as it seems odd that the car would go into "limp mode" without some sort of indictation that it was doing it. Even more odd that it would do it on the first (or even second) pass down a drag strip.

Perhaps he was sitting in the staging lanes with it idling....

[Pro Stock John]

My bone stock regular SS A6 went best of 106.7 mph in nice air, and I've slowed down 2-3 mph in worse air.

So if a ZL1 A6 runs 116 like one HMP in the first week, and this guy here went 5 mph slower than that in the heat, most of it could be worse air. But that's still nothing to get excited about. Again props to OP for sharing.

My car will for sure run slower once coolant temps are over like 195. At 200-210F before a run I lose at least 1 mph, could be 2. But it's hard to keep the car cool if you are in a long line in staging unless you are going to push it (along with 2 helpers).

[camslambam]

If all this about heat soak on these ZL1s are true then my god what garbage build. Worse than a cobra it seems....
Launching in 2nd gear I trapped 124 after two hard mile top speed passes. No heat soak, nothing.

[RoketRdr]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Doesn't seem intuitive to this old drag racer (but seldom track runner), but time will tell, I suppose.

As far as the shift points, I'll be intested to hear what tuners have to say, as it seems odd that the car would go into "limp mode" without some sort of indictation that it was doing it. Even more odd that it would do it on the first (or even second) pass down a drag strip.

Perhaps he was sitting in the staging lanes with it idling....

The PTM mode he was in will also determine the shift points. Tony Roma pointed out that modes 4 and 5 or tuned for the drag strip so if he was in 1-3 it will most likely short shift to maintain traction for the average everyday driver. And yes it will go into 'limp-mode' with no warning if you exceed certain parameters. This was a huge problem with the Duramax/Allison until the tuners figured out how to get around it. But it required a heavily built transmission with proper TCM tuning to do it. According to John Hennessey the factory 6L90 in the ZL1 is already heavily built to handle high horsepower so most likely no one will see a tranny 'limp mode' until really pushing the horsepower limits of the LSA. So either the heat soak was causing the ECM to command the TCM to cut back the shifts or he was in a PTM mode that is already programmed to short shift. Some of you guys that already have your ZL1's with an auto need to get out there and play with the modes to find out how all these systems are actually working together and what each mode is actually doing and give a write-up thread of your findings to the community. There's a lot that isn't known about this car yet because no one has really gone out and tested each of the modes and pushed them to see how the car is actually programmed to operate.

[Stephen12ZL1]

no idling in staging lanes here...it was a low attendance evening at the track. I went from inspection, directly to the lanes, then almost right on the track. I tried mode 5, tour suspension with TC off, sport with TC off. Very similar results with all three.

[speedmon]

Originally Posted by Stephen12ZL1

no idling in staging lanes here...it was a low attendance evening at the track. I went from inspection, directly to the lanes, then almost right on the track. I tried mode 5, tour suspension with TC off, sport with TC off. Very similar results with all three.

Your times seem reasonable....given its a CTS-V powertrain and that car in stock (4200lbs) trim runs low 12s....you can search on youtube.

Needs more boost!
Crank up the boost!

The CTS-V 700 package from Hennesey creates low 11s @ 124

The crux of the power adder is a smaller pulley and cam....they say "high flow heads" but I say BS...those heads flow fine.

They do offer the same upgrade for the ZL1, but no performance numbers as of yet. One distinct difference....warranty....CTS-V 3 years, ZL1 is ONE......