Is This Dealer Lieing to Me?

[Lovestanda]

Originally Posted by Wes @ Reliable Chevrolet

Fellow Forum Members,

I have worked for Reliable Chevrolet for right at 16 years now, in a number of different positions. I have absolutely no reason to lie to a customer. I will special order any car right now at MSRP. That includes the 2010 Corvette ZR1, which is still being sold $30k over list from other dealers. Obviously "Sloppy Joe" wasn't aware that he had that option.
We've had a couple V6 cars that we've purchased from other dealers because they've received the wonderful letter from GM saying good buy. And I've had to pay over sticker for those cars. That being said, I've put a price adjustment sticker in the window to cover me. If I don't put that sticker in the window, any Joe (sloppy or not) can come through my door and be able to buy the car for what it's listed at and I lose $1000 or more depending on the car.
What it all comes down to is that dealers have to be profitable. So what if I have a sticker on a car that is more than the MSRP. You, the customer, has a job as a consumer to buy the car as cheap as you can. Me, the dealer, has a job to sell the car for as much as I can. Let's see who's better at their respective job.

Oh, and for those of you that care, that Red Jewel 2SS that we've been discussing, gets delivered in the morning at MSRP. All he did was come in my dealership, act like a gentleman and purchased one of the first SS Camaro's in a 3 State area.

If anybody needs to ever contact me, I can be reached at 866-782-4389 ext 427

Thanks,

Wes Milby
Reliable Chevrolet
3655 S Campbell Ave
Springfield, MO 65807

Dude, I respect what you are doing!! But judging from many posts here---thier are some dealers posting MSRP, agreeing to MSRP, shaking hands for MSRP then, calling customers (Many of which have waited since OCT 2008) and informing them to, Come on down, we have your long awaited car. Customer gets there and is told to fork over THOUSANDS more in order to take THIER PRE-ORDERED car home. WTF is this sell to the highest bidder mentality about. GM/Dealers/salesperson/mechanics/secretaries etc.... will all lose in the long run. All this crap plus poor quality is what allowed Asian cars to come in and almost dominate the American market in the 1st place.

Dealers---cut it the "F" out. If you told the customer MSRP--honor it!!!!

[Redvet1]

Originally Posted by Lovestanda

Dude, I respect what you are doing!! But judging from many posts here---thier are some dealers posting MSRP, agreeing to MSRP, shaking hands for MSRP then, calling customers (Many of which have waited since OCT 2008) and informing them to, Come on down, we have your long awaited car. Customer gets there and is told to fork over THOUSANDS more in order to take THIER PRE-ORDERED car home. WTF is this sell to the highest bidder mentality about. GM/Dealers/salesperson/mechanics/secretaries etc.... will all lose in the long run. All this crap plus poor quality is what allowed Asian cars to come in and almost dominate the American market in the 1st place.

Dealers---cut it the "F" out. If you told the customer MSRP--honor it!!!!

I could swear that the dealer in one of the previous post said that customers could walk in and buy a car at the window sticker price and they would have to eat it if they paid extra to obtain it from another dealer. Where is that rule set in stone at, thought they could charge whatever over or under they wanted? The blatant advertising, ass covering, and lying is getting to be a bit much. So a dealer gets caught looking bad and feel they have to dig a deeper hole to defend their honor. I'm more inclined to believe those folks who are getting screwed by dealers, otherwise there is no reaosn for them to come on this forum and make up lies and stories. You know what they say. "You have a good experience you tell a couple people. Bad experience you tell at least 10 if not more about it."

A lot of dealers transfer cars to each other all the time. Most of the time the liability is transferred at what they owe to GM or if they actually paid for it at the factory invoice price or less in some cases. Sometimes cars are rerouted as well, depends on the manufacturer. I always ask to see the factory invoice on most car deals. That is the starting point for negotiations for me not the window sticker.

The new Camaro obviously is treated a little different due to high demand by consumers, however they (Car Dealers) certainly aren't buying the cars for an additional mark-up straight from the factory and having to pass on that extra cost to consumers. I call B.S. That is why the freakin factory invoice exists to show their costs and even they have some padding built into them. There is a very nice built in commission on the spread between the factory invoice and the MSRP window sticker, which the dealer and salesperson receive, not GM, but hopefully most folks already know that.

And I also will add that if a dealer is actually paying another dealer any amount over invoice especially $10K that is a big financial risk and most dealers are not into taking those types of risks and hedging their bets that they will be able to sell it to a customer who is willing to pay way to much for the car. What would happen if every potential customer walked in, heard the price and said no? They would be eating it. Consumers unite and just say no! There is not a whole lot of disposable cash sitting around most people's bank accounts these days to waste on overpaying for a car, even if you love it to death. Extra cash wasted paying too much means less cash available for mods.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Wes @ Reliable Chevrolet

All I ask is that I don't get classified with those dealers. All of my customers receive a signed buyer's order when their order is placed.
When it comes to to the mentality of selling to the highest bidder, it's not only the car dealers that fall into this issue. We're just the ones that people tell stories about.

Right now in Southwest Missouri, I'm one of the only dealers that has a few Camaro's. I truly would rather not sell one of my V6's. For what the invoice to sticker price is on the car, I'm better off keeping the car on the showroom so I can have people order off it. This way you can see, smell, touch the car. I can't pay enough for that kind of advertising.

Please don't take this as extremism, but MSRP stands for Manufactures Suggested Retail Price, Correct? The only time I hear people complain about selling a car behind MSRP is when they don't feel it's far enough behind MSRP. Why can't it be the other way around? GM's "suggesting" we sell the car at a certain price. Why does it always have to be less.

Keep in mind, I'm placing all my special orders at MSRP - and sticking to it. If someone can wait till the initial hype is over and not have to be the first one on the block, they'll save money. I've sold every Camaro that I've earned through GM at this point at MSRP and I'm aggressively trying to buy cars from other dealers. GM has the most highly anticipated car on the market right now. If you can't wait, you might have to pay a premium.

Sounds perfectly fair to me. I've said over and over on here. It's called a FREE MARKET. Businesses aren't forced to sell at a given price and consumers aren't forced to buy at a certain price. As long as agreements are kept.

[Lovestanda]

Originally Posted by Wes @ Reliable Chevrolet

All I ask is that I don't get classified with those dealers. All of my customers receive a signed buyer's order when their order is placed.
When it comes to to the mentality of selling to the highest bidder, it's not only the car dealers that fall into this issue. We're just the ones that people tell stories about.

Right now in Southwest Missouri, I'm one of the only dealers that has a few Camaro's. I truly would rather not sell one of my V6's. For what the invoice to sticker price is on the car, I'm better off keeping the car on the showroom so I can have people order off it. This way you can see, smell, touch the car. I can't pay enough for that kind of advertising.

Please don't take this as extremism, but MSRP stands for Manufactures Suggested Retail Price, Correct? The only time I hear people complain about selling a car behind MSRP is when they don't feel it's far enough behind MSRP. Why can't it be the other way around? GM's "suggesting" we sell the car at a certain price. Why does it always have to be less.

Keep in mind, I'm placing all my special orders at MSRP - and sticking to it. If someone can wait till the initial hype is over and not have to be the first one on the block, they'll save money. I've sold every Camaro that I've earned through GM at this point at MSRP and I'm aggressively trying to buy cars from other dealers. GM has the most highly anticipated car on the market right now. If you can't wait, you might have to pay a premium.

I could not agree more---sell the car for whatever you like, 100k if you want. Just tell us UP F'ING FRONT. Too many dealers are marking up the cars AS THE PRE-ORDERED CUSTOMERS COME IN TO PICK UP. Problem is if the "marked up" dealers tell us up front, we won't TO buy. JUST SELL US THE CARS FOR WHAT YOU PROMISED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dEALERS PLEASE REALIZE YOU'LL LOSE DOLLARS IN THE LONG RUN BY SCREWING THE PRE-ORDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:r olleyes::r olleyes:

[JewelZ]

LIAR... all the way, show them the VIN TRACKING info... but there are many dealers straight up selling 2SS models for 10k over, but 5k might be reasonable because of demand and the amount of time you will have to wait from the day you order until you actually get it... argue it and reason it... try tellin them 3K over and pay them the 3K min. down as well, they will push nd pull you will end up at 5K over more than likely and tell them if I have to pay 5 over i may not put anything down and i wont finance through you go outside to a credit source and than refinance to lower ur payments down the road... good luck, let me know what happens on PM if need assistance

[JewelZ]

Originally Posted by irpq11

Sounds perfectly fair to me. I've said over and over on here. It's called a FREE MARKET. Businesses aren't forced to sell at a given price and consumers aren't forced to buy at a certain price. As long as agreements are kept.

FREE MARKET!!! lolz

my friend I will remember never to do business with you with that attitude... Business has ethics and moral and lying is not a part of Business, sell what you want for what you want your price is def. your right but there are limits to what you say and what you dont say to a customer

[Shadowmind]

Originally Posted by RPO_Z28

If you don't like the price, walk away. News agencies could care less about the price a car dealer is charging. Just go find one that is at MSRP and go buy it.

Actually.... Not true at all.

A news crew here in Seattle is about to do a piece on Chevy dealers gouging customers on the Camaro. The piece focuses on 3 things, 1) US Taxpayers (we the ones buying the vehicles) are being turned away by dealers who are overcharging for Camaros sitting on their lots, unsold. 2) Not giving the discounted GMAC loans on the Camaro, forcing customers to get loans from other banks, even though GMAC was just given 7 billion more dollars, and 3) how many dealers are canceling pre-sold orders, and marking them up when they arrive.

There is a HUGE interest by the media on exposing negligent business practices, when the taxpayer owns the corporation outright. This is one of those WTF is going on stories that is going to raise peoples hackles.

And no, if you're a dealer, you can't get a break. Like I've told 18 dealers in my area, you all are already getting 8% on MSRP, plus 3% holdback, plus any dealer installed packages, and you don't even have to lift a finger on this car. It sells itself. But no... just like the mortgage industry, the majority of Chevy dealers are being greedy as hell on the Camaro. It will bite you all on the ass in a few years, when there is NO Camaro in the line up, and your shops are closing their doors for good.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by irpq11

Sounds perfectly fair to me. I've said over and over on here. It's called a FREE MARKET. Businesses aren't forced to sell at a given price and consumers aren't forced to buy at a certain price. As long as agreements are kept.

I agree, this dealer is wanting to keep one Camaro on the lot by marking up the price and selling orders at MSRP. That is very fair. If this dealer did what others have done which is to take somebody's pre-order that they promised would be MSRP and then turn around and screw over the consumer...I have my issues with that type of business practice...

Originally Posted by Wes @ Reliable Chevrolet

Fellow Forum Members,

I have worked for Reliable Chevrolet for right at 16 years now, in a number of different positions. I have absolutely no reason to lie to a customer. I will special order any car right now at MSRP. That includes the 2010 Corvette ZR1, which is still being sold $30k over list from other dealers. Obviously "Sloppy Joe" wasn't aware that he had that option.
We've had a couple V6 cars that we've purchased from other dealers because they've received the wonderful letter from GM saying good buy. And I've had to pay over sticker for those cars. That being said, I've put a price adjustment sticker in the window to cover me. If I don't put that sticker in the window, any Joe (sloppy or not) can come through my door and be able to buy the car for what it's listed at and I lose $1000 or more depending on the car.
What it all comes down to is that dealers have to be profitable. So what if I have a sticker on a car that is more than the MSRP. You, the customer, has a job as a consumer to buy the car as cheap as you can. Me, the dealer, has a job to sell the car for as much as I can. Let's see who's better at their respective job.

Oh, and for those of you that care, that Red Jewel 2SS that we've been discussing, gets delivered in the morning at MSRP. All he did was come in my dealership, act like a gentleman and purchased one of the first SS Camaro's in a 3 State area.

If anybody needs to ever contact me, I can be reached at 866-782-4389 ext 427

Thanks,

Wes Milby
Reliable Chevrolet
3655 S Campbell Ave
Springfield, MO 65807

Are you accepting employee and supplier discount with the Camaro pre-order??

Originally Posted by Shadowmind

Actually.... Not true at all.

A news crew here in Seattle is about to do a piece on Chevy dealers gouging customers on the Camaro. The piece focuses on 3 things, 1) US Taxpayers (we the ones buying the vehicles) are being turned away by dealers who are overcharging for Camaros sitting on their lots, unsold. 2) Not giving the discounted GMAC loans on the Camaro, forcing customers to get loans from other banks, even though GMAC was just given 7 billion more dollars, and 3) how many dealers are canceling pre-sold orders, and marking them up when they arrive.

There is a HUGE interest by the media on exposing negligent business practices, when the taxpayer owns the corporation outright. This is one of those WTF is going on stories that is going to raise peoples hackles.

And no, if you're a dealer, you can't get a break. Like I've told 18 dealers in my area, you all are already getting 8% on MSRP, plus 3% holdback, plus any dealer installed packages, and you don't even have to lift a finger on this car. It sells itself. But no... just like the mortgage industry, the majority of Chevy dealers are being greedy as hell on the Camaro. It will bite you all on the ass in a few years, when there is NO Camaro in the line up, and your shops are closing their doors for good.

I agree with your post as well to some extent once you throw in there our taxpayer money.. Once the Government own majority stake in GM, then I don't see how the free market price gouging clause can be justified..

[Lovestanda]

Originally Posted by JewelZ

LIAR... all the way, show them the VIN TRACKING info... but there are many dealers straight up selling 2SS models for 10k over, but 5k might be reasonable because of demand and the amount of time you will have to wait from the day you order until you actually get it... argue it and reason it... try tellin them 3K over and pay them the 3K min. down as well, they will push nd pull you will end up at 5K over more than likely and tell them if I have to pay 5 over i may not put anything down and i wont finance through you go outside to a credit source and than refinance to lower ur payments down the road... good luck, let me know what happens on PM if need assistance

Go ahead dealers, sell rhe 2ss for 10k over. Why was the Camaro "Killed by GM in the 4rth gen?" Lack of sales. It's amazing to me that some GM dealers are out to kill sales of the 5th gen by overcharging.


Possible future FIAT owner

[Shadowmind]

Originally Posted by Wes @ Reliable Chevrolet

Please don't take this as extremism, but MSRP stands for Manufactures Suggested Retail Price, Correct? The only time I hear people complain about selling a car behind MSRP is when they don't feel it's far enough behind MSRP. Why can't it be the other way around? GM's "suggesting" we sell the car at a certain price. Why does it always have to be less.

You're correct, you have the right to sell any car, at any price you want. But the facts are, that 99.9999999% of all cars sold over the last decade or more to most customers, have been at MSRP or less. A precedence is in place.

Im guessing that you have 32 Cobalts in your stock as well, that you need to discount down 10% as well. Why is that? Because NO ONE wants to buy them.

The Camaro is GM's only saving grace right now. But... if the majority of dealers are going to taint that buying experience for new Chevy customers, (or worse, repeat ones), then you're burning your bridges.

I know a dealer that is local here as well, that has done the same tactic you have. They have a 1LT Camaro on lot, that is $8k marked up. The GSM told me specifically that, that car was a demo, and they had no intention to sell it. Its meant to draw people in to order off it. BUT... he still charges 5k to order new Camaros. That's called getting your cake and eating the whole f-ing thing... Word will spread locally that the guy is a rip-off, that xxx dealer 15 miles away will order on MSRP, and the dumb-ass will have lost out on sales that will never walk in.

That is why manufacturers have the MSRP on the sticker. So the dealers DONT get greedy and shoot themselves in the foot. The whole reason there's 12 chevy dealers within a 50 mile radius of each other, is because they've been able to regulate themselves on price, and a buyer buys from them based on merit and service. Customers shouldn't need to be head-hunting to buy a new car, it sours the whole experience.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by JewelZ

FREE MARKET!!! lolz

my friend I will remember never to do business with you with that attitude... Business has ethics and moral and lying is not a part of Business, sell what you want for what you want your price is def. your right but there are limits to what you say and what you dont say to a customer

Uhhhh..... I made it clear that an agreement is an agreement. I'm saying if I have a product and people want it bad enough, I can charge it up all I want. If I charge too much they'll go somewhere else and buy and I'll have to come down in price or go out of business. My business is the most competitive in pricing in our industry in lower Alabama. I undercut the competition to get business. So you see, the consumer wins in this battle. It's a two way street. I chose volume over markup. If you have a problem with that (and I KNOW you don't) then I would prefer not to do business with you. Our service is second to NONE and our clients can't be happier.

I'm just saying if there is no agreement, it's fair for the company and customer to make there own choices.

[1320junkie]

Originally Posted by Wes @ Reliable Chevrolet

Fellow Forum Members,

I have worked for Reliable Chevrolet for right at 16 years now, in a number of different positions. I have absolutely no reason to lie to a customer. I will special order any car right now at MSRP. That includes the 2010 Corvette ZR1, which is still being sold $30k over list from other dealers. Obviously "Sloppy Joe" wasn't aware that he had that option.
We've had a couple V6 cars that we've purchased from other dealers because they've received the wonderful letter from GM saying good buy. And I've had to pay over sticker for those cars. That being said, I've put a price adjustment sticker in the window to cover me. If I don't put that sticker in the window, any Joe (sloppy or not) can come through my door and be able to buy the car for what it's listed at and I lose $1000 or more depending on the car.
What it all comes down to is that dealers have to be profitable. So what if I have a sticker on a car that is more than the MSRP. You, the customer, has a job as a consumer to buy the car as cheap as you can. Me, the dealer, has a job to sell the car for as much as I can. Let's see who's better at their respective job.

Oh, and for those of you that care, that Red Jewel 2SS that we've been discussing, gets delivered in the morning at MSRP. All he did was come in my dealership, act like a gentleman and purchased one of the first SS Camaro's in a 3 State area.

If anybody needs to ever contact me, I can be reached at 866-782-4389 ext 427

Thanks,

Wes Milby
Reliable Chevrolet
3655 S Campbell Ave
Springfield, MO 65807

You will order the new 2010 ZR1 in white@MSRP? And will you take an 06 Z06 in on a trade?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Shadowmind

You're correct, you have the right to sell any car, at any price you want. But the facts are, that 99.9999999% of all cars sold over the last decade or more to most customers, have been at MSRP or less. A precedence is in place.

Im guessing that you have 32 Cobalts in your stock as well, that you need to discount down 10% as well. Why is that? Because NO ONE wants to buy them.

The Camaro is GM's only saving grace right now. But... if the majority of dealers are going to taint that buying experience for new Chevy customers, (or worse, repeat ones), then you're burning your bridges.

I know a dealer that is local here as well, that has done the same tactic you have. They have a 1LT Camaro on lot, that is $8k marked up. The GSM told me specifically that, that car was a demo, and they had no intention to sell it. Its meant to draw people in to order off it. BUT... he still charges 5k to order new Camaros. That's called getting your cake and eating the whole f-ing thing... Word will spread locally that the guy is a rip-off, that xxx dealer 15 miles away will order on MSRP, and the dumb-ass will have lost out on sales that will never walk in.

That is why manufacturers have the MSRP on the sticker. So the dealers DONT get greedy and shoot themselves in the foot. The whole reason there's 12 chevy dealers within a 50 mile radius of each other, is because they've been able to regulate themselves on price, and a buyer buys from them based on merit and service. Customers shouldn't need to be head-hunting to buy a new car, it sours the whole experience.

So what's the problem. Why are you guys so pissed? If there is no agreement on a certain car then GO DOWN THE STREET and get one. The dealer reaps what they sew. And will have to come down in price. Cobalts are plenty. Not just because people don't want them but because they have been here for a while. It's funny how people talk about rare cars as having alot of value and can sell them for a lot of money and that is fine but when a new car dealer has a rare car they are somehow a-holes because they get alot of money. Double standard. Face it, the Camaro is a rare car right now. Soon it won't be and they wont be selling for over MSRP then.

[Shadowmind]

Originally Posted by irpq11

So what's the problem. Why are you guys so pissed? If there is no agreement on a certain car then GO DOWN THE STREET and get one. Face it, the Camaro is a rare car right now. Soon it won't be and they wont be selling for over MSRP then.

Uhhh, because it damages the parent company maybe?

Imagine going into your local McDonalds franchise. They jack up all of their menu items by 25% over any other franchise in the state. They don't participate in any of the national specials. Their store to store sales are down consistently quarter after quarter. Yet they still get financial help from the parent company.

Now imagine me, the investor buying stock in the parent. I see these crap financials from that market segment and wonder WTF is going on there. I don't see what their doing, only that they're doing really, really bad. Maybe I don't like what I see, so I sell my stock off and buy into another food chain that is doing better. That drives the share price of the parent down.

Now imagine 75% of McDonalds across the US, arbitrarily jacking up their menu items willy-nilly...

Yeah, I think the picture is painted pretty plainly.

GM can ill afford their dealers going rogue right now, and we the taxpayers own GM stock. I think we have a right in saying what is right and what is wrong with their selling methods right now.

You're right, the Camaro "on the lot" is a rare commodity. But ones NOT BUILT are not. It takes zero effort to scope out a new order, wait 6 months for it to be built, and deliver it to the customer. Tacking on any amount over MSRP for a walk in order is plain greedy. Because in 6 months, you're right, most dealers will have 3 or 4 sitting in inventory, not moving.

I 'thought' I had a decent relationship with the GSM at my local dealer for 2 new cars and 8 years of service. Its amazing at how easily greed can tarnish those 8 years of service. Its amazing that a GSM is willing to throw away 8 more years of service and new purchases for a measly $5k.

I mean really, I've had this guy over for a BBQ, his family knows my family, yet he has the balls to tell me, "Why should I sell you a car at MSRP, when someone will walk in tomorrow and give me 5k over?"... What do you say to that?

Again, I say... burning bridges. not something that GM as company can afford.