Inside Line: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by E.T.

I don't know why any of this matters much anyway. How many people who buy ZL1s are really going to be driving them on road coarses all the time. Yeah, there are the enthusiasts on here, but I bet most of them will be garage queens.

Because we have a bunch of chest thumping gotta have the fastest car people that are stuck in the 60's and think the only true measure of a performance car is 1/4 mile times, and that my friend is ridiculous.
Actually road courses reflect more of what the average owner will be faced with whenever he is out driving. Unless all he does is drive on a straight road from stoplight to stoplight.

[radz28]

Seems about right to me, and I'm good with it. My mind hasn't changed at all

[Mr. Unassailable]

They are MUSCLE CARS!

A muscle car is not a road course car.

My SS is a muscle car. I expect exactly that.

For anyone that thinks the term muscle car has changed feel free to google it up. I doubted my own definition of "muscle car" after reading so of these replies. So I googled it.

----- wiki
Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles.[1] The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."[2] A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing.[3][4][5][6] They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing. Developed simultaneously in their own markets, muscle cars also emerged from manufacturers in Australia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere.


--------- dictionary.reference.com
muscle car
noun
1. a flashy sports car with a large, powerful engine; a hot rod.


-----------

So unless you think the ZL1 is no longer a muscle car and has moved on to competing with "sports cars" ("Indy cars" in my words) then your arguments of "it's not all about power" "it's not all about 1/4 mile" are garbage.



In short, if you feel the ZL1 is superior to the Shelby GT500 then you also feel the Camaro is no longer a muscle car.


Sent from my iPhone

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by E.T.

I don't know why any of this matters much anyway. How many people who buy ZL1s are really going to be driving them on road coarses all the time. Yeah, there are the enthusiasts on here, but I bet most of them will be garage queens.

It matters because people like sports cars. To say the only way to enjoy the performance of a car like the zl1 is to take it to the track is silly.

I mean, if that's your argument then you could say the same thing about the gt500, or a ferrari, or any sports car. I don't know about the other owners but I'll definitely be taking mine to the track. But even when I don't I'm sure I'll have a blast driving it around.

[Ultrakla$$ic]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

If I remember correctly Chevy has always promoted this ZL1 as a road course handling car, not as a drag racer. But for some that is not what they wantedthey wanted it to be a drag car. You need to get over it. Look at all the commercials promoting the ZL1. Have you seen one of it on the drag strip? No because it was not designed for that. The original duty of the performance part of the pony car was Tran-Am racing, and what did they consist of? Road courses. So everyone calm down and get a grip. Yes even you Mustang guys that are on total red alert mode. The GT500 was basically designed to go fast and have a top speed of 200mph the ZL1 was designed to go fast around curves and that translates into higher exit speeds from the corners. The Shelby needs that extra power to try to make up the lower exit speed from the corner. As further tests will show on smooth or bumpy tracks the winner will be depending on the length of the straightaways. Long straightaways, advantage Shelby, short straightaways, advantage ZL1. Where chevy messed up in my opinion is giving it the iconic designation of a drag racer, if they had called it a Z28 instead maybe more people would understand it's true designed puropse.

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...amaro_zl1.html

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Mr. Unassailable

They are MUSCLE CARS!

A muscle car is not a road course car.

My SS is a muscle car. I expect exactly that.

For anyone that thinks the term muscle car has changed feel free to google it up. I doubted my own definition of "muscle car" after reading so of these replies. So I googled it.

----- wiki
Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles.[1] The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."[2] A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing.[3][4][5][6] They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing. Developed simultaneously in their own markets, muscle cars also emerged from manufacturers in Australia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere.


--------- dictionary.reference.com
muscle car
noun
1. a flashy sports car with a large, powerful engine; a hot rod.


-----------

So unless you think the ZL1 is no longer a muscle car and has moved on to competing with "sports cars" ("Indy cars" in my words) then your arguments of "it's not all about power" "it's not all about 1/4 mile" are garbage.



In short, if you feel the ZL1 is superior to the Shelby GT500 then you also feel the Camaro is no longer a muscle car.


Sent from my iPhone

Is that the definition of either of these cars? Affordable
? Not to me but back in the day of True Muscle Cars I could afford one.
Mid sized or full sized? No neither one falls into that catagory either.
Your definitions still add controversy into if they are muscle cars.

[CyberPredator]

Originally Posted by SixGracing

Have never personally witnessed a Stock SS doing a 13.0 @ 111. I go to the drags often. Best stock time I've seen is a 13.5 @ 109

Also, again here we go with the "Somethings not right comment". Do any of the posters who are always complainig about the times and "who's driving" realize what it takes to get another second in the 1/4 mile? It's not like the difference between a 13 and a 12 is 50 hp. It's a ton of hp and a lot of car mods to make it launch along with a lot of other factors involved. Any stock car running in the mid 12's is very fast. So stop whining. It's not a bullet bike, it's a heavy Camaro.

lol they are hard to launch. Very willing to bog. But I'm 330lbs and with only one visit to the track I ran 12.9@109 and a 13.0@110. with a shitty 2.1 60ft as my best

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Mr. Unassailable

They are MUSCLE CARS!

A muscle car is not a road course car.

My SS is a muscle car. I expect exactly that.

For anyone that thinks the term muscle car has changed feel free to google it up. I doubted my own definition of "muscle car" after reading so of these replies. So I googled it.

----- wiki
Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles.[1] The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."[2] A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing.[3][4][5][6] They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing. Developed simultaneously in their own markets, muscle cars also emerged from manufacturers in Australia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere.


--------- dictionary.reference.com
muscle car
noun
1. a flashy sports car with a large, powerful engine; a hot rod.


-----------

So unless you think the ZL1 is no longer a muscle car and has moved on to competing with "sports cars" ("Indy cars" in my words) then your arguments of "it's not all about power" "it's not all about 1/4 mile" are garbage.



In short, if you feel the ZL1 is superior to the Shelby GT500 then you also feel the Camaro is no longer a muscle car.


Sent from my iPhone

They're both disqualified by your quoted definition; "Sold at an affordable price" of which they are not.

[Blue Menace]

Originally Posted by Mr. Unassailable

They are MUSCLE CARS!

----- wiki
Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles.[1] The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."[2] A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing.[3][4][5][6] They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing. Developed simultaneously in their own markets, muscle cars also emerged from manufacturers in Australia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere.


--------- dictionary.reference.com
muscle car
noun
1. a flashy sports car with a large, powerful engine; a hot rod.


-----------

So unless you think the ZL1 is no longer a muscle car and has moved on to competing with "sports cars" ("Indy cars" in my words) then your arguments of "it's not all about power" "it's not all about 1/4 mile" are garbage.



In short, if you feel the ZL1 is superior to the Shelby GT500 then you also feel the Camaro is no longer a muscle car.


Sent from my iPhone

If you continue reading that Wikipedia article, you can see that both the Mustang and the Camaro are classified as pony cars. Seeing as how the mustang's debut spurred a writer to coin the term "pony car" and the Camaro was developed to compete with that car, this makes sense.

Although I did not see it in this article, I read somewhere that pony cars tend to focus on handling and muscle cars focus on brute power and speed. So, take all that however you like.

FWIW, I see lots of overlap between these two categories. Also, unless one of them starts flying, I believe the Camaro and Mustang will always be in the same class/category.

[htron50]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Exactly. I think that both the GT500 and ZL1 are fine cars. As I've said for quite some time now, if one's thing is straight line acceleration, then I think that the GT500 is probably the better choice between the two, but if one is more into to handling, everyday touring and drivability, then I think that the ZL1 is likely the better choice. Which vehicle is "better," I think, really comes down to what each individual's interests and priorities are.

At this stage in my life I am more into handling and everyday touring and drivability, and I prefer the styling and proportions of the Camaro, so it's an easy choice for me.

The thing about the GT500 is, it's just not appealing to me. The ZL1 really is "complete"... From a personal appeal and comfort level, it is perfect. From an all around "motorsport' vantage it is truly the obvious choice as well. For those of use who don't live 1/4 mile at a time in a simple straight line, well.... you get my point.

Now if I may add, the majority of naysayers on here don't even own either. And, I'd guess those that are owners - are not here trying to justify their purchase - from either camp. We know what we have.

Do I respect a car like the new GT500? Sure. When it comes to speed in a straight line. Do I respect the GT500 when it comes time to listen to the radio when it's raining outside? No. But then again, you don't drag race in the rain do you?

[2cnd chance]

Originally the ZL1 was built to be a drag car. I believe 1 was combined with a Z28 package making it a "complete" high performance american sports car for that time. The Shelby
Mustang originally was a road-racer meant to compete against Corvettes and 911's. Times have changed.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Originally the ZL1 was built to be a drag car. I believe 1 was combined with a Z28 package making it a "complete" high performance american sports car for that time.

Actually, originally the ZL1 was an RPO of an engine, not the trim level designation of a Camaro. The 9560 COPO Camaro was the Camaro in which the ZL1 Cam-Am racing engine was placed. The 9560 COPO Camaro used the L78 SS configuration as its base platform.

[big hammer]

pony car is such a gay term.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Actually, originally the ZL1 was an RPO of an engine, not the trim level designation of a Camaro. The 9560 COPO Camaro was the Camaro in which the ZL1 Cam-Am racing engine was placed. The 9560 COPO Camaro used the L78 SS configuration as its base platform.

Gotcha!
I was dumbing it down.