2012 Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Shelby GT500-On Track

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Betiwin

I don't think you can call it end of story.

Where's the 'Ring time? "We'll only release them if the tests prove poor results", goes the excuse from svtLand. Where are the Road Atlanta times? [crickets]

Road courses, slaloms, autocrosses? 52/48 + MRC vs. 57/43 + Bilsteins. End of story.

Street manners? Owned.

1/4-mile? Gee, with a 24% w-2-p advantage, small wonder it's worth some tenths...

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by pdari

All this bench racing is hilarious. Most of you guys will never see a roadcourse and the few who track, the ZL1 is a clear winner. We will be driving in the street everyday and guess what, I doubt we will be thumping our chest when a GT500 pulls up next to us. Likely, we won't even look at it and pretend it isn't there.

so! mod it!

[Stew]

[QUOTE=hognutz;5152711]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

yeah you could save between $150-$200 a year on fuel. but what other data are you really bringing to the table? the waranty is not better so repairs don't figure in. how is the cost of maintence better?

I wanted the PP GT500.

So at that rate It would take me 17years to recoupe the cost of PP car over what my ZL1 is costing.

my ZL1 is costing me 55k the PP car the best deal I could find was 58,450.

If you do all those mods, your warranty is dead so that DOES account for a lot, and I believe that is one thing that is being referred to.

[Betiwin]

[QUOTE=adamgl;5152496]

Originally Posted by adamgl

"Entering the turns, the Shelby displays a boatload of body roll. That's not completely surprising given the GT500's humble origins, but I expected more from the Bilstein two-mode adjustable shocks, which are part of the $3495 Performance Package. The car wallows like a stuck pig and I desperately attempted to load up the outside wheels on corner entry. Despite my best efforts, I couldn't calm the Shelby to precisely attack a corner. To make matters worse, the understeer in the fast turns was significant, meaning I was unable to carry the speed through the important fast sections of the lap.



Just going on his comments, It doesn't corner well. Its power keeps it close. Add the same power upgrades (Headers, pullies, heat ex.) to both platforms and the gap will get worse for the GT500.

And to mention the price difference, almost $5,000 as tested. That could buy Intercooler, pullies, CAI, tune, head and supercharger porting. What would the time diff. be then?
2013 Ford Shelby GT500 coupe

PRICE AS TESTED: $63,080

2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 coupe

PRICE AS TESTED: $58,335

What would be the cost of a blown motor on the ZL1 without the warranty? What about the heat soak from the pulley you just put on the 1.9L blower that will have to spin so much harder as it is undersized for 14lbs of constant boost. How would the Z handle with 100 more RWHP? Look at from this view the GT500 runs right with the Z on the track and dominates it on the street.

It does seem that me being a novice at a track event the ZL1 would make me look like a pro. The GT500 I’m sure I’d look like an 8 year old who stole his parent’s car at first. Sounds allot like the Viper vs Z06 from years back. The Z and Viper put down same times on a road course but the viper took so much work where the vette was a lot less dramatic and confidence inspiring.

[IOMZL1]

This all makes me wonder... (How is) the GT500 faster around (which) road course than the Ford GT?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Betiwin

Although reading the review makes me want to go drive a Zl1 and see if I can feel this translate into "real world driving." I ve owned alot of 500+HP cars raced them all, but never on a road course. The article does make me want to see if I can feel what he was smiling about. But it goes with out saying tho I dont want to be frowning everytime I get smoked on the street tho. Both of these things are amazing to me tho.

"Feel" is hard to attain. Adding 100HP easy in comparison.

[A-little-perspective]

[QUOTE=hognutz;5152711]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

yeah you could save between $150-$200 a year on fuel. but what other data are you really bringing to the table? the waranty is not better so repairs don't figure in. how is the cost of maintence better?

I wanted the PP GT500.

So at that rate It would take me 17years to recoupe the cost of PP car over what my ZL1 is costing.

my ZL1 is costing me 55k the PP car the best deal I could find was 58,450.

Data is the problem with intangible. An unquantifiable cost relating to an identifiable source.

It doesn't matter. I will just meet you on your side and say warranty has no value. Everything else is negligable.

[adamgl]

[QUOTE=Betiwin;5152736]

Originally Posted by adamgl

What would be the cost of a blown motor on the ZL1 without the warranty? What about the heat soak from the pulley you just put on the 1.9L blower that will have to spin so much harder as it is undersized for 14lbs of constant boost. How would the Z handle with 100 more RWHP? Look at from this view the GT500 runs right with the Z on the track and dominates it on the street.

It does seem that me being a novice at a track event the ZL1 would make me look like a pro. The GT500 I’m sure I’d look like an 8 year old who stole his parent’s car at first. Sounds allot like the Viper vs Z06 from years back. The Z and Viper put down same times on a road course but the viper took so much work where the vette was a lot less dramatic and confidence inspiring.

Heat exchanger / cooling system upgrade. Warranty is just a risk you have to take if you want to mod. Goes with any car.

[Betiwin]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Then buy a Gt500 no reasonable car guy will fault you. On the other hand this review tells me what I want to hear. I'm all about the feel of a car, not just the brute force. But then again 580HP is nothing to sneeze about

Do you think this "feel of the car" will translate into your daily or most likely for most "weekend drving" of your car. Do you auto X or track your car often. I ask in all honest your point of view? Most people I believe will floor it on a sweeping on ramp on there local expressway going from 2nd to 5th pulling G's as they sweep onto the freeway from 40-140 and then shut it down.

Now if you auto X I totally believe this "feel" will be evident, but from how you drive your car do you think you will feel it? (Not Sarcasm here, but honest question)

[2cnd chance]

[QUOTE=A-little-perspective;5152670]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

I guess probably both tangible and intangible costs. Costs such as warranty, repair, maintenance, fuel economy. Stuff no one cares about but still costs money and still has value.

Should be apples to apples cost. It always has been.

[hognutz]

[QUOTE=Stew;5152735]

Originally Posted by hognutz

If you do all those mods, your warranty is dead so that DOES account for a lot, and I believe that is one thing that is being referred to.

I guess the point is you don't have to mod it to go faster around corners. this was the 63,000 dollar car that got beat here. what would it have been like for the stock car?

maybe that is the data we need to see. maybe the 3,450 bilstein package is not worth the money and for the ford you should buy a base car with TP and add your own coilovers.

I want to see how the base coupe stacks up. when I was pricing out the GT500 I wanted the PP car thinking the suspention would be worth it but maybe it is not. will wait for more tests getting beat in lap times wil missing shifts is not close.

It is funny becaue there are two dudes on the SVT forums that act like teh Ring times were better than the ZL1 but they just did not publish them. this is the second review in a row were the driver said strait line speed was better but overall drive was worse.

[Betiwin]

Warranty is gone at this point from the pulley and tune. Warranty on a 15K motor is important to some. 58,000 ZL1 as test 3K in mods plus 6-8K in motor repair would add up. I have tried to keep an eye on LSA failures but if you are auto crossing your car the CTS-V is not a grat place to find your data. the moded ones seem to be made for quick runs down the 1/4. The LSA at 14lbs for 30mins at a time is a whole different story then a that same motor for 11 seconds and change. That powered rod would scare the hell out of me at that point for laps at a time with that 1.9L blast furnace on top.

I dont track my car tho so this wouldnt be a concearn for me but those that do and talk about the prowes of the Z, and adding a pulley, tune, heat exchanger, but loss of warannty this would and becomes huge.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

This all makes me wonder... (How is) the GT500 faster around (which) road course than the Ford GT?

I have a hard time believing it.

[Betiwin]

[QUOTE=hognutz;5152815]

Originally Posted by Stew

I guess the point is you don't have to mod it to go faster around corners. this was the 63,000 dollar car that got beat here. what would it have been like for the stock car?

maybe that is the data we need to see. maybe the 3,450 bilstein package is not worth the money and for the ford you should buy a base car with TP and add your own coilovers.

I want to see how the base coupe stacks up. when I was pricing out the GT500 I wanted the PP car thinking the suspention would be worth it but maybe it is not. will wait for more tests getting beat in lap times wil missing shifts is not close.

It is funny becaue there are two dudes on the SVT forums that act like teh Ring times were better than the ZL1 but they just did not publish them. this is the second review in a row were the driver said strait line speed was better but overall drive was worse.

The way you would like to option the GT500 does not exist. The PP must be added to get TP. no PP means no TP. Vert TP is not even an option.