Inside Line: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison

[Van@RevanRacing]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

One lap does not make a race, let's compare 10, 25 and 50 lap averages and total times. Then see which car is best on the road course. Remember they said it was hard to get consistent laps in the Shelby.
As I have said before a course like this with a long straightaway and very few tight turns will favor the Shelby.

10-50 Laps. Whatever it takes. I've offered to discuss and do it on the road course instead of letting magazines give their impression. I guess if the Shelby had a mag ride suspension this wouldn't be a discussion? Sebring has it's share of tight turns and slow sections. Anybody happen to notice the TTS Porsche take the inside of turn 16?

Originally Posted by oortcloud

What I find interesting is that these 2 cars are not even in the same category. NASA puts the 2013 gt500 in TTU while the zl1 is in TTS. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) In fact, you could put the zl1 on a diet, reduce about 200 lbs, and it would still be in TTS.

I find this interesting because if the gt500 is having a hard time keeping up with a TTS car, then it could have even more problems with other cars in TTU. Although the skill of the driver will have the biggest impact.

Incorrect.

Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 Classes (SUR) Translated (TTS, TTU, or TTR)
See page 15 of attached link. http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/time_trial_rules.pdf

Ford (2010-2011) Shelby GT500 Classes (SUR)
See Page 17 on the same link above.

Neither car has been classed as of yet and I ran TTR this weekend.

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

The conclusion...

Willow is a fast track and so is Sebring.

[A-little-perspective]

What have I missed? What is the score?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Wondering

Inside Line took the two cars to the Streets of Willow course.....

ZL1......1:25.57

GT500...1:24.92

What is still amazing is the fact that a car that weighs in at 400 lbs more, has 90 less hp and 70 lbs less tq, on a track that supposedly favors its competitor still almost squeeked out the fastest lap, and did take the overall winner title due to repeatable performance and not a one lap wonder.

[Blue Menace]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

Not really ... According to a large sum of folks, power is more important and handling comes second.

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Ah, I see. While that would certainly describe me (I *try* to be upfront with my biases/wants), it seems the larger sum of folks here express their preference for handling over power.

I have grown to believe this is the crux of the entire debate. Modern muscle cars, due to safety requirements and advancing tech, seem to be moving away from pure power/straight line performance metrics towards more balanced performance. (i.e. power plus handling) It seems "balance" is a hard animal to catch, so comparing any two performance cars in a given class will show you one beats in power, the other in handling. The "overall winner" most likely factors in numerous other variables based on driver preference.

[Erik@Torq]

Originally Posted by Van@RevanRacing

This is what the 2013 GT500 can do at Sebring.................

Lap 1 - 2.30.594

Lap 2 - 2.29.339

Anything sub 2.30 at Sebring is fast. Especially on STREET TIRES

Enjoy!

Damn, that's moving! As you said that is an awesome time with street tires as well. I believe my fastest time last year in my 2010 SS was 2.31. I had quite a bit done to the suspension and was making about 450rwhp N/A.

I will be heading up to Sebring in July to get some laps in the ZL1, it will be my 3rd time there so I hope to get some good runs in!

Originally Posted by Van@RevanRacing

The next NASA Time Trial Event at Sebring is scheduled for October 6th and 7th. If there are any ZL1 owners out there that have the credentials to run Time Trial with NASA I think it would be awesome to work together and communicate. The goal would be to prepare both cars as equally as possible and then track them in Time Trial.

The video I posted earlier was basically stock other than a tune (25-30 rwhp) and some high temperature brake fluid.

Any willing participants please contact me and let's discuss.

Thanks

Van

I plan on being there if I get my credentials in time, I should be getting them in August. Are you guys running a Vbox or similar? It would be cool to compare the data and graphs to see which one does better or worse in the different sections.

/Erik

[rez333]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

I must have missed the part where the GT500 had a faster lap time on the road course.

talk about having blinders on. OP posted a link and you never even read it - you just concluded that the ZL1 won. Or ZL-lost in this case.

But awesome results from the ZL1, I'm constantly amazed that such a heavy car can be such a well handling car. That magnetic ride is amazing.

[GoldenBear]

Shouldn't this thread be in the Chevy Camaro vs. ... forum?

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by newmoon

What is still amazing is the fact that a car that weighs in at 400 lbs more, has 90 less hp and 70 lbs less tq, on a track that supposedly favors its competitor still almost squeeked out the fastest lap, and did take the overall winner title due to repeatable performance and not a one lap wonder.

Just a bit of fact checking....its 270 lbs, not 400 (4120 vs 3850). That's still quite significant, but 130 lbs either way would make even more difference.

It is 82 HP not 90 HP (580 vs 662). 8 HP might be splitting hairs, but again, would rather have it than not. Tq is closer - 5 lb/ft.

And similar to what I posted in another thread, could you not turn your statement around to read like this...

What is still amazing is the fact that a car that has an archiac rear suspension, a poor front/rear weight distribution, and much inferior suspension technology still squeeks out the fastest lap, though it did not take the overall winner title due to the other car being easier to drive at the limit

Just a thought.

[Kiss My SS]

After reading all of this I was unaware that the GT500 was cheaper than the ZL1, The GT500 is clearly faster in a straight line and is as fast on a road course so if I was spending my money on those two particulars the GT500 wins hands down in price, power and track speed but I agree its a crap shoot between these two cars in any type of race.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by Erik@Torq

I plan on being there if I get my credentials in time, I should be getting them in August. Are you guys running a Vbox or similar? It would be cool to compare the data and graphs to see which one does better or worse in the different sections.

/Erik

That would be REALLY cool.....this coming from a nuckle-dragging drag racer...

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by Blue Menace

... The "overall winner" most likely factors in numerous other variables based on driver preference.

Indeed!

[rez333]

I had to laugh about this comment:

skyggge says:
06:11 AM, 06/25/2012
Disclaimer: This is purely meant to be humorous.

This is the first thing I thought of after reading this article:

GT500: What are you smiling about?

ZL1: Dude I almost had you!

GT500: Almost had me? You never had me. You never had your car... Ask any racer, any REAL racer. It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winnings winning.

[Blue Menace]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Just a bit of fact checking....its 270 lbs, not 400 (4120 vs 3850). That's still quite significant, but 130 lbs either way would make even more difference.

It is 82 HP not 90 HP (580 vs 662). 8 HP might be splitting hairs, but again, would rather have it than not. Tq is closer - 5 lb/ft.

And similar to what I posted in another thread, could you not turn your statement around to read like this...



Just a thought.

Perhaps it was worded this way because new things tend to get more press?

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by Kiss My SS

After reading all of this I was unaware that the GT500 was cheaper than the ZL1, The GT500 is clearly faster in a straight line and is as fast on a road course so if I was spending my money on those two particulars the GT500 wins hands down in price, power and track speed but I agree its a crap shoot between these two cars in any type of race.

It should be noted that if one wants to do some fairly serious Road Racing, they will need to option up the GT500 above the price of a ZL1.

For drag racing....base car gets it done best.