MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[Deki]

Originally Posted by htron50

I've said this several times before. I must say it again.

Ford saved weight by cutting corners on five critical areas, and probably more.

1) A braking system that is less than optimal.
2) A suspension system that erodes confidence
3) A straight axle that is .... a "one shot" deal (straightaways)
4) Lightweight construction - resulting in tinny hollow sounds in the roof when you are in a light rain... worse in heavy rain. You have a hard time even hearing the radio. I know, its a "nit", but cutting corners on roof insulation is just another sign your riding enjoyment will fade like it's brakes fade on a slalom.
5) Inferior Warranty (only 60k on the drivetrain)..... kind of tells you something!

Motor trend summed it up pretty good. When you get a ZL1, you certainly get your MORE than your money's worth ..... Oh.. one more thing....
Anyone with a ZL1 won't have to worry about the five points above. And as much as I respect all enthusiasts, it's your money!

Really? What about lack of a nav on the ZL1? Worse gas mileage? Poorer visibility? Comical trunk space? 99% of people won't take these cars to the track, and kudos to the ones that do. 90% of people won't be able to push these cars to their limits at the track. Every track day I go to, people have nice, expensive, "track ready" cars, that they constantly over drive, take too hot into a corner, and destroy the brakes in the first 3 laps. I've even seen guys with ceramic brakes cook them at the track. Fact of the matter is, this "suspension that erodes confidence" and a "straight axle that is a one shot deal" still beat the wider tired, more advanced suspension, better PTM programmed ZL1 around the track. Give credit where it's due. It's also not the only track it beat it on. For months people on this website preached how even with the extra power the GT500 won't be able to touch a ZL1 on the roadcourse, and now that it beat it, excuses are coming out again. I do agree though, that the GT500 team failed it's owners by allowing the car to be released with brakes that fade after light track use during magazine testing. I understand when people buy these cars the first thing to go are stock brake pads, fluid, and lines, but to have the brakes fade after 3 laps on a 2 mile, sub 11 turn track is just ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Ok, I'm not as intelligent and experienced in driving fast cars as you are, but isn't the majority of the people on this forum not disagreeing with the formidability of the GT500. Those that are might be brand loyal(as I am) and as any other would, be defending their stance? My take is that the mag reviewers know that the GT500 is a monster, but there is that other "metric" that seems to be predominant and that is every day drivability, and for the mature experienced driver, comfort does play a large role. For the young and brash (those that think of themselves as real men - until they get older) maybe not so much.

I agree with this completely. I love the GT500, but for the $7,000 price increase over the 11/12 GT500s, you'd think they'd fix the fading brakes and make it run significantly faster with all that extra power and optional suspension. I don't see the point of getting Ford's Track Pack and Performance Package when you're stuck with the same brake fading issue that not only the base 13 GT500 would have, but also plagued the GT500 since it's 2007 introduction. I think the ZL1 just struck a balance that everyone seems to love, and you can't fault the magazine reviewers for picking it even if it lost "most" of the instrumented testing. It's the same reason why they pick the Boxter/Cayman over cars that have more power/better numbers. It's just a "better" car to drive, even if it's "not as fast".

[evolve]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Ok, I'm not as intelligent and experienced in driving fast cars as you are, but isn't the majority of the people on this forum not disagreeing with the formidability of the GT500. Those that are might be brand loyal(as I am) and as any other would, be defending their stance? My take is that the mag reviewers know that the GT500 is a monster, but there is that other "metric" that seems to be predominant and that is every day drivability, and for the mature experienced driver, comfort does play a large role. For the young and brash (those that think of themselves as real men - until they get older) maybe not so much.

Sounds about right.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by acamellis

So the new GT500 is Ford's new bad boy, correct? So why compare it to GM's third or fourth meanest car and not the ZR-1? I mean to be completely fair... manufacturer vs. manufacturer.

So now the magazines are supposed to compare manufacturer vs manufacturer so people can use these reviews to decide if they want a $110,000 car or a $60,000 car? Seems real logical there champ.

[Wolverine]

Here's the video....

[8cd03gro]

omg there is going to be a shit storm in here

[motorhead]

They forgot the most important street test. What's going to happen when a gt500 and zl1 meet on the highway. Who cares how they ride on the street. If I wanted ride, I would buy a big BMW. Looks to me from all the test so far that the gt500 is the best everywhere. You guys are getting pretty pathetic. Every time the gt500 proves you wrong you have to cling to a new angle. First you were going to win at the track. Well you didn't. Now it's "well we have better brakes". I'll give you that one since you need something to hang onto. I'm sure your better brakes won't beat me at beaver springs or when I see you on 322. There are very few owners that will run one lap at a track let alone multiples. If you ask me ford really out smarted gm here. They took an old design and made it out perform the most advanced technology in the world all in the name of value and real world results. If ford can do this with this car, if I were you guys I would be worried when ford gets in the 21 century.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by Deki

Really? What about lack of a nav on the ZL1?

A lot of people keep saying this. 2013 ZL1 DOES have NAV.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

You are gonna hate me but I gotta give some input on this.

Now the gt500 simply throws it last knight, (662hp), squarely onto c8. Sorry but with all the other pieces in place, it is a win. A quick, flimsy one, arguably not very repeatable, but hey it's a win.

Young bull ...

[Deki]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

A lot of people keep saying this. 2013 ZL1 DOES have NAV.

Have you seen it? It looks like an etch-a-sketch. It's terribly implemented in the 2013 and it looks like an afterthought. My point was, things that he was pointing out are only a part of what everyone looks at when buying a car. He obviously bought a ZL1, and good for him. Whether he has a GT500 or a ZL1, makes no difference to me, you can make argument for owning either car, neither of which I do, so....I really don't care I'm just a big fan of both, and I hate to say it, I'm kinda disappointed in the GT500 so far. For being so much lighter and having so much more power, it's sad that it's not able to do better. Fading brakes after 1 lap still disappoints me, especially looking at how much of a price hike there was from a 2012 GT500...only to still have fading brakes just like the previous model year.

[Bob Cosby]

You guys can grow up. Me? I intend to stay young forever...

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

And the gt500 won about every metric in that comparison from lap times to et's, etc. Thats similar to the mission of a chess game. Take the win. Most of those publications score things as two columns, stats and subjective. It won the battle that al o and ford techs deemed the biggest metric; who is faster on a track. The Gt500 has now won a few, even one is enough to debunk al o and his claims. Game over, challenge bested, sorry but that's a checkmate.

You've got some facts wrong. The gt500 did not win every metric. The zl1 won some very critical metrics. That's why they gave the overall win to the zl1. You're claiming a road race win, but motor trend declared a tie. So sorry you don't get your checkmate. And according to other mag reviewers it's the zl1 as the winner of the road race. According to some others its the gt500. At best you have a stalemate (or win-win if you own one of these cars).

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by oortcloud

You've got some facts wrong. The gt500 did not win every metric. The zl1 won some very critical metrics. That's why they gave the overall win to the zl1. You're claiming a road race win, but motor trend declared a tie. So sorry you don't get your checkmate. And according to other mag reviewers it's the zl1 as the winner of the road race. According to some others its the gt500. At best you have a stalemate (or win-win if you own one of these cars).

Ok, so are saying he was mostly right?

[b4z]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

And the gt500 won about every metric in that comparison from lap times to et's, etc. Thats similar to the mission of a chess game. Take the win. Most of those publications score things as two columns, stats and subjective. It won the battle that al o and ford techs deemed the biggest metric; who is faster on a track. The Gt500 has now won a few, even one is enough to debunk al o and his claims. Game over, challenge bested, sorry but that's a checkmate.

Performance was questioned, and specifically the gt500's was discredited by al o and many others. Ford guys said wait for it and you'll be surprised. We were talking about the lap times, and specifically today in that post you quoted about them on Leguna buddy. My post started off with "on Leguna, the gt500 beat the zl1..." or something like that.

Motortrend tested the cars and the gt500 won the metrics. you bring up their test just as I did. Pretty bad when your argument falls apart on its own stilts because you jumped into a concern without reading to keep up with the context.

Board. Next? Not worth it, to all contenders just slap yourselves now for arguing a relatively undebatable reality with published proof.

Where is the nurburgring lap for the gt500? There isn't one because the brakes would lose performance halfway.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Ok, so are saying he was mostly right?

Are you saying I am mostly right?