MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[GoldenBear]

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What some Ford fans appear to fail to understand is that stating that the ZL1 is a better road course car than the GT500 is not the same thing as stating that the GT500 will not be faster on a road course than the ZL1.

Originally Posted by 101fng

your bolded statement is the biggest load of bullshit i've ever read. in a sentance such as "the zl1 will be a better road coarse car," it is implied that the zl1 will be faster, unless your idea of a road coarse is one with no clock.

If I am correct in concluding that you are a Ford fan, you just proved my point.

Do you understand that the fact that the GT500 may be able to run a lap or two quicker than the ZL1 on a specific road course here and there, is not incompatible with the fact that overall, on the majority of road courses and over a majority of laps, it will be easier to consistently obtain faster laps with the ZL1 rather than the GT500, and thus making the ZL1 a better road car?

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by 101fng

i'm gonna call it like i see it, you are backpedaling hard and playing semantics. your bolded statement is the biggest load of bullshit i've ever read. in a sentance such as "the zl1 will be a better road coarse car," it is implied that the zl1 will be faster, unless your idea of a road coarse is one with no clock. if someone said "the gt500 will be the better drag car," would it be presumptious to say that the gt500 will be faster in the 1/4? only an idiot would see any other meaning in that sentance than "the gt500 will be faster". do you see what i'm saying?

talk about insecurity issues. you are trying your hardest to justify what you see as a failure in the ZL1. it's kind of obvious. instead of seeing it as a failure, why not just look at it as the greatest camaro ever produced? there's nothing to justify there, because it's fact.

hell, i just quoted a guy that said the zl1 would smoke the gt500 on the 'ring. he didn't say it would likely do better, he didn't say it would probably pull on the gt500 in the turns, he didn't say anything like that. he straight up said the gt500 will be slaughtered on the nurburgring. it's because of guys like that that you feel you have to back pedal and elaborate on the true meanings of their statements.

FAIL

[evolve]

Originally Posted by LeviG

I assume your point is that the GT500 has been shown to be faster at the drag strip and on the road course even though the speculation was that the ZL1 would be faster on roadcourse due to superior handling and braking. We're on page 21 of this topic and everyone already knows this. So please explain what your getting at by being a child and trying to stir $#!t up.

lol, yep. +1 man.

[evolve]

Originally Posted by rez333

there is none, therefore there is no point. Seriously guys - stop making these arguments, it makes the Mustang guys think you're stupid.

When was the 2012 ZL1 released? 2012. When was the 2013 GT500 released? 2012. Now be quiet and find some arguments with merit.

Im sure H.Wiki knows this. He was pointing out the obvious

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

What some Ford fans appear to do when they post on Camaro5 is use straw man arguments by mis-characterizing statements that have been made.

Ford fans have made comments such as, "Everyone here said that the GT500 wouldn't beat the ZL1 on a road course." In reality the type of comments that were actually stated were something such as "the ZL1 will likely perform better on road courses than the GT500 will," or the "ZL1 is a better road course car, in general, than the GT500 is."

HORDES of people said there was no way the gt500 would keep up on a road course. I specifically recall a long debate about whether or not the 2013 gt500 would even be able to best the Boss on a road course, which inferred the zl1 would put a smack down on the gt500 on any road course. In fact, a certain vendor said the 2013 gt500 wasn't going to be much faster than the 2012 model, if at all. This debate has gotten tired and repetitive, but to say such statements weren't made is just inaccurate and BEGGING for more flame wars.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

HORDES of people said there was no way the gt500 would keep up on a road course. I specifically recall a long debate about whether or not the 2013 gt500 would even be able to best the Boss on a road course, which inferred the zl1 would put a smack down on the gt500 on any road course. In fact, a certain vendor said the 2013 gt500 wasn't going to be much faster than the 2012 model, if at all. This debate has gotten tired and repetitive, but to say such statements weren't made is just inaccurate and BEGGING for more flame wars.

Please post the link where it was stated that the GT500 would never be faster than the ZL1 on any lap on any road course.

[LAWMAN]

Look,we all know Ford waited for the performance anouncement of the ZL1 before rushing the "2013" Shelby out in 2012 so Ford could hope to pull some of the ZL1 buyers away from Chevy,....Camaro faithful be patient,G.M. WILL have answer to the Shelby,
anyway as i see it,they are both great high performing cars,it a matter of preference,Ford faithful are gonna buy a mustang,and Chevy faithful are goona buy a Camaro,no matter who wins what,but for me it is and would be a Camaro,they simply look better and ride better(to me)which is all that matters,

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by 101fng

i hate svtp for the record. it just bugs me to see guys like that make these ridiculous arguments. it really only does one thing, which is, give the mustang guys something to laugh at.

making ridiculous caveats like "nobody said the zl1 would be faster on every lap or every track" is no better than saying "oh they should compare the hennessy to the shelby" or "they should compare the same model year". it's doing nothing for the camaro community.

What he said was completely true. The ZL1 is a better track car.

Drag racing and performance driving are two completely different things. One is all about the time, the other isn't. The GT500 clearly wasn't made for road courses. Every reviewer has complained about how much the chassis pushes in the corners and how you have to use power oversteer just to get it to rotate well through the hard corners.

Let it go.

The ZL1 was designed to be track-ready from the showroom floor and it delivered on that. The GT500 is a 660 hp beast that has incredible acceleration at its price point. There's something for everybody.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Please post the link where it was stated that the GT500 would never be faster than the ZL1 on any lap on any road course.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128453

Al Oppenheiser:
I fully expect the competition to be in our Rear view mirror! I feel that to push the Camaro performance and technology to the limits is right and necessary, because at GM we don't just want to compete, we want to Win!
Wednesday February 9, 2011 3:09 Al Oppenheiser
3:09


Unless you don't consider the GT500 competition.




http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=16

"Sorry, Rez....but this is one of my least favorite threads in this section so far...bold claims to make with absolutely no ammunition...

You think they tested against the GT500 and put all this work into the ZL1 just to be "close" to the GT500? Noooooo.....expect it to be a very very sad snake..."

[nanokpsi]

Originally Posted by LAWMAN

Look,we all know Ford waited for the performance anouncement of the ZL1 before rushing the "2013" Shelby out in 2012 so Ford could hope to pull some of the ZL1 buyers away from Chevy,....Camaro faithful be patient,G.M. WILL have answer to the Shelby,
anyway as i see it,they are both great high performing cars,it a matter of preference,Ford faithful are gonna buy a mustang,and Chevy faithful are goona buy a Camaro,no matter who wins what,but for me it is and would be a Camaro,they simply look better and ride better(to me)which is all that matters,

Ford wasn't rushing anything. The shelby came out when most all of the 2013s came out. The "2012" ZL1 came out almost at the end of the model year, hence why so many orders went unfilled and were bumped to 2013 MY cars.

I hope chevy does answer back. I just doubt ti will be untill both cars are on ther next platform.

[evolve]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

HORDES of people said there was no way the gt500 would keep up on a road course. I specifically recall a long debate about whether or not the 2013 gt500 would even be able to best the Boss on a road course, which inferred the zl1 would put a smack down on the gt500 on any road course. In fact, a certain vendor said the 2013 gt500 wasn't going to be much faster than the 2012 model, if at all. This debate has gotten tired and repetitive, but to say such statements weren't made is just inaccurate and BEGGING for more flame wars.

I was a reader of such thread lol... There were quite a few that said the 500 will not have a chance... the SRA sucks (which, I admit is not made for bumpy surfaces)...
yada yada...

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Please post the link where it was stated that the GT500 would never be faster than the ZL1 on any lap on any road course.

I dont feel like looking, but I have replied to plenty of posts here where it was said the 500 will get beaten by the ZL1. He is absolutely correct in his post.

Originally Posted by LAWMAN

Look,we all know Ford waited for the performance anouncement of the ZL1 before rushing the "2013" Shelby out in 2012 so Ford could hope to pull some of the ZL1 buyers away from Chevy,....Camaro faithful be patient,G.M. WILL have answer to the Shelby,
anyway as i see it,they are both great high performing cars,it a matter of preference,Ford faithful are gonna buy a mustang,and Chevy faithful are goona buy a Camaro,no matter who wins what,but for me it is and would be a Camaro,they simply look better and ride better(to me)which is all that matters,

I dont think so man. Unless the Vette get a huge HP/suspension increase... I do agree with your last point... depends on the buyer.

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I see the point, but what, do tell, is the performance difference between a 2012 ZL1 and 2013 ZL1?

I'm betting there will be none, but we could hope that Chevy would put a little bit of time into some more horsepower and better heat management for the ZL1. I know MT didn't say anything about heat soak in their video, but we all know that when the ZL1 gets hot, the power drops because of the intake temps. To be honest I'm kinda surprised that Chevy didn't pick up on that one. Or maybe they did and didn't think it was that big a deal.

I'm a Camaro fan, not that I hate the Mustang, I just like the Camaro better (which is my perogative). The Mustang is a great car, no matter what trim level (except for the V6, you just cant call it a muscle car with a v6... sorry but that goes for the Camaro too, for me anyway). And I was all on board with the ZL1 kicking the GT500's ass in the roadcourse. But now that we've actually seen the H2H comparison, I accept that the GT500, as far as track time and performance goes, is at least equal to the ZL1 if not better on the track (I'm still not ready to talk about the qtr mile, but give it time...)

I'm not sure what the 2012 GT500's numbers are, but the camparison is new to new. The ZL1 is a late bloomer for the 2012 model year. The GT500 is brand new for the 2013 model year. They're comparing the two competitors that are available now, not what was built last year. To do that would make Chevy look like they're scared to face what's here now.

I see the comparison here on video and I see the numbers posted by both cars, but I gotta say, I'd really like to see a true head to head race on Mazda Raceway Leguna Seca with BOTH cars on the track at the SAME TIME. Not to see if the ZL1 will do better this time around, but I just think it would be an exciting thing to watch.

[evolve]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128453

Al Oppenheiser:
I fully expect the competition to be in our Rear view mirror! I feel that to push the Camaro performance and technology to the limits is right and necessary, because at GM we don't just want to compete, we want to Win!
Wednesday February 9, 2011 3:09 Al Oppenheiser
3:09


Unless you don't consider the GT500 competition.




http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=16

"Sorry, Rez....but this is one of my least favorite threads in this section so far...bold claims to make with absolutely no ammunition...

You think they tested against the GT500 and put all this work into the ZL1 just to be "close" to the GT500? Noooooo.....expect it to be a very very sad snake..."

This completely supports my previous post. Thanks!

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128453

Al Oppenheiser:
I fully expect the competition to be in our Rear view mirror! I feel that to push the Camaro performance and technology to the limits is right and necessary, because at GM we don't just want to compete, we want to Win!
Wednesday February 9, 2011 3:09 Al Oppenheiser
3:09


Unless you don't consider the GT500 competition.

Now when was the specs released on the 2013 GT500? I bet it was long after this statement was made and ford had a chance to retune the 500.