ZL1-LSA-MR+LS7+Pedders Coilovers = Z28?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

No. It is a huge success. The car's performance across the board can't be matched for it's price. Comparatively to the '13 GT 500 it's 5K less, and has more to offer, other than quarter mile times which we suspected. It is a work of engineering genius. However, the Ford motor, being more modular, without GG on top, has it's day for '13. The LSA, never really upgraded since it's inception, is merely a plug and play weapon of choice more from a off the shelf cost saving perspective, needs an upgrade if it is going to stay in the ZL1 platform for MY '14, as there are no changes for MY '13 announced ( and I hope Chevy has a stage two upgrade package in the works). We know the corporate rhetoric about "certifying" motors, which by GM standards is a cumbersome, lengthy, and time consuming effort. It appears Ford's camp does not have the same ball and chain with engine development. So, in conclusion, we have a superior body, chasis and suspension which is world class in my opinion, with drivetrain to match, only to be underpowered by a MY year upgrade by it's main competitions answer for MY '13. The ZL1, as is, with a 70 HP increase (with a susbstantial TQ increase as well), can impose Jeffersonian Democracy at will and conquer all that dares to challenge it with ease..<sarcasim of course>. The car as designed met or exceeded it's goal for MY '12. Chevy knows what needs to be done next. Convincing those who give the corporate green light is the only obstacle. We need more power, that's all, the underpinnings are in place... it's quite a ride, but it begs for more power. It does not pitch, roll, or yaw. It's almost completely neutral under any load for a factory production car. As Capt'n Kirk said....Mr. Scott....we need more power. Did I say it just needs more power? . I haven't run a quarter mile yet for time, I asked the question to the board to a fellow who ran a good time about the RPM at the traps. He said he thought it was around 4K or so in fourth gear. Much too low a RPM in terms of a trans gearing solution or final drive ratio to have it only come in at that RPM for the quarter mile. The car is a stellar road car. First gear can be wound out, as well as the other three main gears upward to road speed where it really shines. It pulls hard in fifth. The main emphasis is road course IMHO. On the open road, with momentum, it's stout. Fuel shuts off too early and top end is shortened on the side of caution rather than really showing what it can do. The LSA I feel is a motor intentionally produced with much room for growth that was manufactured on the tame side for the Cadillac market. Then, it was pulled for duty on the ZL1 project as not to cause friction or issues with the bigger dogs in the designated engine Corvette camp. It's quite a story the ZL1. A bit of Cadillac, a bit of Corvette, a bit of Camaro, and a gung ho attitude to bring it all together within a project that flew, died, and was resurected. The LSA was the only choice, off the shelf that Chevy had, to bring it in without a skunk works engine development program. Validation....arrrrrrrggggghh.

Makes a lot of sense. I just don't see the ZL1 getting the kind of HP bump that you say it needs. That would exceed the LS9 output and I highly doubt that will happen for the Camaro.

[KarFan]

The world isn’t sugar coated and neither is the automotive business. If you want to have an educated debate and not just wishful thinking then it is worth realizing some of the issues the Camaro team must deal with. Nobody is saying it can’t be done.

GM deserves some real credit for bringing the Camaro back while they went through bankruptcy. Not to mention the Camaro being a segment sales leader in a down economy. And for enthusiasts they brought out a ZL1, SS and now 1LE options. So if GM doesn’t bring out a Camaro with the exact engine, trans options or moniker that some on a web forum want it’s not the end of the world and certainly not the last anyone will hear of Z28….or is that Z/28.

[woodside783]

ls7 z28. 40-45k range if they where to make it

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by KarFan

The world isn’t sugar coated and neither is the automotive business. If you want to have an educated debate and not just wishful thinking then it is worth realizing some of the issues the Camaro team must deal with. Nobody is saying it can’t be done.

GM deserves some real credit for bringing the Camaro back while they went through bankruptcy. Not to mention the Camaro being a segment sales leader in a down economy. And for enthusiasts they brought out a ZL1, SS and now 1LE options. So if GM doesn’t bring out a Camaro with the exact engine, trans options or moniker that some on a web forum want it’s not the end of the world and certainly not the last anyone will hear of Z28….or is that Z/28.

In this part of the forum your dealing with individuals that have a more mature understanding in general. We are not so easy to be swayed by others, as we need intelligent and well thought out facts. I think a good number of us in this section of the forum completely get what your saying. If you look through these threads you'll see we've debated this for quite sometime. Bottom line is we want a 5Gen Camaro that lives up to the spirit of the original Z28, and weve been willing to wait it out. If that doesn't happen I personally will look to an SS and mod it myself. But until I know for sure I'll continue being patient. I've had a good number of GM products in the past and now that I'm a little older I miss the glory days. Fortunately GM has produced in my opinion some great values with their new products and I especially appreciate the return of the Camaro.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by KarFan

The world isn’t sugar coated and neither is the automotive business. If you want to have an educated debate and not just wishful thinking then it is worth realizing some of the issues the Camaro team must deal with. Nobody is saying it can’t be done.

GM deserves some real credit for bringing the Camaro back while they went through bankruptcy. Not to mention the Camaro being a segment sales leader in a down economy. And for enthusiasts they brought out a ZL1, SS and now 1LE options. So if GM doesn’t bring out a Camaro with the exact engine, trans options or moniker that some on a web forum want it’s not the end of the world and certainly not the last anyone will hear of Z28….or is that Z/28.

GM deserves a lot of credit for resurrecting the Camaro. It is an awesome car and the different models fit different people pretty well. The thing I dont understand is if Ford can develop and use different engines, why can't GM? GM uses the same LS motors available and just drops them in the car. Even the greatest Camaro ever borrows its engine from something else.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by KarFan

It’s nothing personal, just the automotive business and more specifically GM’s way of doing business.

The premium hand built performance V8 engines were never developed or priced to be in a Camaro or Cadillac. Sigma platform was never developed or priced to be anything but underpinning a Cadillac. Kappa was developed only to be powered by 4 cylinder engines.

There is no doubt that the Camaro team wants the best for the car. They brought a Camaro back to market while GM went through bankruptcy. It’s a true automotive miracle. But in order to do so there were several compromises that had to be made in platform, engines and content. Every automobile is developed my committee.

Chevy can build a Camaro with any engine/trans combo they want but it must make a business case and be profitable on its own. Choosing a premium engine is a serious cost hurdle to get green lighted internally from the bean counters. There are more internal development costs for a different model than just the difference in MSRP from a LS3 to LS7 crate engine.

My enthusiast opinion doesn’t matter. But it’s important to understand that as an enthusiast our voice is loud but our numbers are small. Chevy already offers the SS, ZL1 and now 1LE. My personal opinion is if they could have done a LS7 Camaro they would have already.

The wait won't be long as we'll likely know in about a year what GM has in store to close out the 5th Gen Camaro.

The engine cost is a serious hurdle There is one hurdle and only one - Emissions.

Internal development cost What would they be? A badge or a fascia change? I could care less. Make it the Z28 option code. Problem solved.

Feel free to continue to think of 100 reasons why they should not build the Z/28. None of them matter. The only real obstacle to a LS7 Z/28 is EMISSIONS.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The engine cost is a serious hurdle There is one hurdle and only one - Emissions.

Internal development cost What would they be? A badge or a fascia change? I could care less. Make it the Z28 option code. Problem solved.

Feel free to continue to think of 100 reasons why they should not build the Z/28. None of them matter. The only real obstacle to a LS7 Z/28 is EMISSIONS.

Spoken with authority!!!

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The engine cost is a serious hurdle There is one hurdle and only one - Emissions.

Internal development cost What would they be? A badge or a fascia change? I could care less. Make it the Z28 option code. Problem solved.

Feel free to continue to think of 100 reasons why they should not build the Z/28. None of them matter. The only real obstacle to a LS7 Z/28 is EMISSIONS.

The engine and trans should drop in right? What changes would have to be made to go from LS3 to LS7?

[DanSS24]

Hmmm...

Camaro V-6
Camaro SS
Camaro SS/1LE
Camaro Z28 (with LS7)
Camaro ZL1

Oh boy...what choices do we have and I want it all

[OldScoolCamaro]

The LS7 is designed for a dry sump, which by my understanding can not be configured to fit the engine compartment. This was previously discussed on the board. It would have to be deployed with a traditional wet oil pan. That's not a big deal. What is though, is the key word validation, will it need another go 'round to be put in a Camaro? The emissions as Pete said is another issue. Can the emissions problem be solved by passing along a surcharge to the consumer in the sticker price?

[PYROLYSIS]

The SSX used a dry sump LS3. Yeah, it's a racecar, but maybe it can be done.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The engine and trans should drop in right? What changes would have to be made to go from LS3 to LS7?

From a 1LE SS to a 1LE with an LS7 wet sump virtually no changes would be required if the 1LE has the ZL1 differential, shafts, hubs...

Another way to look at it is we want a ZL1 less MRC, the lux interior, etc.. that way all they do is drop the motor in

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

The SSX used a dry sump LS3. Yeah, it's a racecar, but maybe it can be done.

The SSX is a show car and not a race car. The SSX NEVER ran a single hot lap anywhere, any time, ever. Consider it a three dimensional picture of a club racer

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The SSX is a show car and not a race car. The SSX NEVER ran a single hot lap anywhere, any time, ever. Consider it a three dimensional picture of a club racer

That's a shame. I'll race it.