Serious ZL1 Defects

[1968SS/RS]

As I follow all this I am sick to my stomach for the owner! I know you can't compare the 2 but it reminds me of back in 1996 My Dad and I both bought matching Ford F-350 power strokes. Mine arrived first I paid for it in full cash, drove it 18 miles and had to pull over cause the motor sounded like it was going to fall out of the truck! Long story short right away the dealer trying to get me to relax said "we will get you a new motor" I said no you will get me a new truck! ended up being all the rockers on one side were not adjusted properly and one actualy fell off and a valve stayed shut causing all my problems.
My dads truck never made it off the lot, went to check it out the day it came in looked under it and it was leaking oil from the pan! Due to the sump for the cross member the engine had to come out to remove the pan for a new gasket and reseal. So on a diffrent level I can relate to the grief of this thread. I truly hope for the best possible out come for you and you some how get even more out of GM for the major heart burn you must have from all of this!
I am due to pick my Z up today and think if this was me I would have gone postal by now .
Best of luck and keep as positive as possible

[01pewterz28]

Originally Posted by ZoomZoom

Man this can't be good. There's no way uder the sun that's this car can be put back together correctly. Just my 2 cents. I would just be prepared to go the next step! Sorry --- I feel your pain.

No different than taking your car to an aftermarket performance shop doing an engine swap, or heads, cam, tranny, ect.... This is the Tech's jobs I am sure this is not the 1st engine swap they have done.

Originally Posted by TheReaper

I agree. No matter how good the techs are the car will never be like a factory built new car. I've seen Ford dig deep into a new car but never this deep.

How so new factory motor see abouve post no different then say you take you car to Hennessey to have them do a 700 Pkg.

Originally Posted by MR.CamaroSS

sorry to hear about your problems with your ZL1. i have an SS and i wouldnt be happy if that was me. i would really push for them to just give you a new one... things happen for a reason and im sure it will work out for the better weather or not you get a new ZL1. that noise that your herd when you were driving was probably that loose air duck when that plastic shit is loose it can be louder than you think. Good luck and i hope they fix it soon and think positive.

Nothing her can do just because the car has an issue he has to follow the guide lines set by his states Lemon law policy he can complain all he wants but until he reaches that magic number of 4/30 he has to let them fix it. He has stated his displeasure sure his new ZL1 is in the shop for issues but that's life we shall see once this swap is complete if the car continues to have issues he can start his claim.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It appears to be nothing more than a like-for-like engine swap, and it probably does look worse if you've never pulled and rebuilt, built up, or replaced an engine yourself.

Sure, you'll know in your head that it isn't the same engine that went in on the production line, and if you're looking at the car in reference to it otherwise being a 100-point show car you probably will find a few little evidences here and there of the replacement.


Norm

Exactly

Originally Posted by DangerZL1

I'm sure it will go back together just fine. The process appears organized.

Yep

Originally Posted by assasinator

no way i would want that car now. its just not the same a OEM factory fresh to me. i hope Joe Schmoe the mechanic is really good. id never trust the car now.

it might be better than factory fresh once they are done with it you never know. things happen so if your water pump fails and they replace it it's no longer a factory fresh car would you get rid of it?

Some of you need to wake up and snap back to reality bottom line a new car was purchased he drove it off the lot it's now the customers car if something happens you bring it back for WARRANTY service that is provided with your new car purchase you cannot just give it back if something breaks you let them fix it. If they are unable to fix it per his state law 4 times for the same issue, or 30 days in the shop for the repair item he can file a Lemon Law claim. Cut and dry no if's and's or butt's again sorry or the OP but all of you who say Demand a new car just need to snap back into reality.

If GM or any Manufacture just gave people a new car when a problem was found we would be paying 10-times the cost of the car to factor in replacement value.

Would I be upset Sure would I like my car replaced with a new one sure will that happen not at this time not until I have reached the criteria for Lemon Law Status. Since I have been through the lemon law process I have seen how it works so in the end he just needs to stay cool (looks like the OP is) the them address the issues and after this replacement his car will be back good as new with NEW OEM GM Parts.

[ZL1Dave]

It would be very easy to prove the leak theory now the old motor is on the ground by pressurizing the oil system like the other poster noted. I have my doubts that so much oil could be weeping through that one spot as you documented in earlier pictures but I have seen stranger things happen. I think your car is going to be fine after this, although I agree this much tear down isnt desirable. A little more chasing of the leak would have been nice and to actually witness the leak happening with the motor still in the car would have been best but thats not how dealerships usually work. The tech doing the job seems to care and looks very organized so your probably gonna get an above average job done. Best of luck with it

[HDRDTD]

I'm sure it would have been nice if they had been able to spend more time trying to track down the actual location of the leak, and find the actual cause, but.......

They seem to have already spent several visits attempting to locate the actual leak, but were never successfull.

At some point in time you have to weigh the options of either spending who knows how much more time looking for the original source of the leak, making the customer wait even longer while you're looking, adding to the customers frustration that it's taking so long etc, etc, etc along with the customer worrying if they HAVE found the leak, or......

Move forward, and change the entire assembly in question (in this case the engine), absorb the lose, get the car back in the customers hands and try to restore at least a little of the customers trust in the car not leaking anymore.

There's a time in any service call for anything where it just doesn't make economical sense to continue spending time and money trying to repair the unit vs. replace it and move on.

[sspddmn]

Originally Posted by 01pewterz28

No different than taking your car to an aftermarket performance shop doing an engine swap, or heads, cam, tranny, ect.... This is the Tech's jobs I am sure this is not the 1st engine swap they have done.



How so new factory motor see abouve post no different then say you take you car to Hennessey to have them do a 700 Pkg.



Nothing her can do just because the car has an issue he has to follow the guide lines set by his states Lemon law policy he can complain all he wants but until he reaches that magic number of 4/30 he has to let them fix it. He has stated his displeasure sure his new ZL1 is in the shop for issues but that's life we shall see once this swap is complete if the car continues to have issues he can start his claim.



Exactly



Yep



it might be better than factory fresh once they are done with it you never know. things happen so if your water pump fails and they replace it it's no longer a factory fresh car would you get rid of it?

Some of you need to wake up and snap back to reality bottom line a new car was purchased he drove it off the lot it's now the customers car if something happens you bring it back for WARRANTY service that is provided with your new car purchase you cannot just give it back if something breaks you let them fix it. If they are unable to fix it per his state law 4 times for the same issue, or 30 days in the shop for the repair item he can file a Lemon Law claim. Cut and dry no if's and's or butt's again sorry or the OP but all of you who say Demand a new car just need to snap back into reality.

If GM or any Manufacture just gave people a new car when a problem was found we would be paying 10-times the cost of the car to factor in replacement value.

Would I be upset Sure would I like my car replaced with a new one sure will that happen not at this time not until I have reached the criteria for Lemon Law Status. Since I have been through the lemon law process I have seen how it works so in the end he just needs to stay cool (looks like the OP is) the them address the issues and after this replacement his car will be back good as new with NEW OEM GM Parts.

What are you the GM police?

[Russell James]

If you are set on keeping this car, I would at least ask for a very long extended warranty on everything. And they'd better provide it at the very least.... actually should be handing over a new car for this rediculous situation.

It would be interesting to plug a preluber into that engine while it's on the ground. Not sure if that area of the block is a pressurized oil circuit, or if just crankcase oil vapors are being forced out through porosity there... if there is porosity.

They'd better have the preluber already out to use on the new engine before putting it in the car. Tough to get to the oil pressure port in back once the engine is in the chassis. If they don't plan on prelubing it.... It's a GM special tool for prelubing new engines. Every dealer I worked at had one. Lazy techs though just fired up new engines dry, I hated hearing all that knocking on a new engine, so I always pre-lubed them... like the service manual says to do.

[01pewterz28]

Originally Posted by sspddmn

What are you the GM police?

No but people really need to snap back to reality Ok demand a new car, GM better replace the car, You need to consult a lawyer, ect...

Really close your eyes, tap your heel's 3 times and snap your fingers twice.

"Welcome back to reality"

All I am saying is wake up procedures are to be followed once you have followed the procedures then you can look at the car buy back/replacement until then you are at the hands of the repair shop to try to fix the issue once they have hit the magic number you go to Step 2.

[2001ragtop]

I will say that the Mechanic to me seems EXTREMELY detailed and organized. Parts appear to be carefully placed (working with what space/protective measures he has.)

(I think most owners would be in tears if they saw they car like this. I know I would.)

Hopefully he will take his time, use the torque specs required, and use a torque wrench on every bolt that calls for it.

I would ask for thread locker on my pressure plate bolts, etc if possible.

I also copied every single picture he uploaded of this car disassembled.

This is the BEST THREAD I HAVE EVER SEEN ON THIS WEBSITE. I got goosebumps seeing those pictures.

All this information is priceless if you plan to own this car or you already do.

NOTE: Wikipedia states GM had problems with LS-engines, oil weeping on some cylinder heads. Maybe that's where the leak is, and not the engine block.

From Wiki:
"Problems........Another common problem with the 04-06 5.3L engines was cracking cylinder heads. This is commonly called the 'Castech Head' failure on the internet. GM issued a TSB on this failure to help service techs identify the problem. The head casting (which can be viewed from the passenger side of the vehicle just in front of the valve cover) was 706. Some heads with this casting number would fail, but not all of them as GM had different suppliers for the same head. The failure was due to undetected porosity around the oil drains in the head.[12]"

[ZoomZoom]

Originally Posted by 01pewterz28

No but people really need to snap back to reality Ok demand a new car, GM better replace the car, You need to consult a lawyer, ect...

Really close your eyes, tap your heel's 3 times and snap your fingers twice.

"Welcome back to reality"

All I am saying is wake up procedures are to be followed once you have followed the procedures then you can look at the car buy back/replacement until then you are at the hands of the repair shop to try to fix the issue once they have hit the magic number you go to Step 2.

Right, When you have a problem this severe, and you have to dissemble the entire drivetrain (except rear) the exhaust, drop the complete front end, your going to get back to reality, when you see the scratched, dented, missing bolts and screws, the wires not routed correctly, etc, etc,etc. Like I said, get ready for step 2!!!

[mr02Z/28]

All I have to ask,,,,,,,, where is this FBod Father ????, who promotes this car but is know where to be seen when problems or issues occur....... Maybe he should use some of his influence and get something done, like making the customer 120% Satisfied or is it not in his "job description" to promote "customer satisfaction"....

[CAM ZL1]

The crate motor is installed, complete re-assembly should be done early next week, and given a thorough test procedure I may be back behind the wheel on Wednesday, which would be very nice.

As for the situation on the GM Corporate end, I went forward with reaching out to some people in GM with the power to force through these sorts of issues. I approached all of these communications, along with all of my updates here, in the most professional and level headed state that I think I could have.

I have been offered a buyback on my 2012 ZL1, with an immediate replacement 2013 ZL1 to be ordered within a few days. I was informed my 2013 re-order will be expedited in terms of production (Sorry for anyone who I cut in front of). When the 2012 is repaired, I will be able to drive it until the 2013 replacement vehicle is delivered to the dealership.

I thank everyone who has followed this issue and either put forward possible causes for the leak, I did forward the information to the service tech, and also those who wished me luck on the situation. Hearing from the GM Engineer who contacted the dealership two days ago, this situation seems to be an isolated casting defect which I hope only affected #1526. I will keep updating the situation as I think some people are interested in the process.

[mr02Z/28]

Damn,,,,,, CAM you are a patient person,,,,,, I would be seriously ticked off that this is taking soo long after GM/Chevy promoting this car as the "Ultimate Camaro"...

[So Cal Camaro]

Nice to hear GM stepped up...

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by mr02Z/28

All I have to ask,,,,,,,, where is this FBod Father ????, who promotes this car but is know where to be seen when problems or issues occur....... Maybe he should use some of his influence and get something done, like making the customer 120% Satisfied or is it not in his "job description" to promote "customer satisfaction"....

The dealer will ensure the car is fixed under warranty. Scott does not need to address the issue. Engine warranty issues are done to the existing block in the car as long as it is documented and warranted. If the owner has issues beyond that point, or the problem exists beyond the warranty work that was completed, then the dealer will follow procedures up the chain at the owners request. Ultimately GM will make every and all attempts to address the problem at the dealer service level. If the dealer can't address the issue satisfactorilary then the regional GM rep needs to be brought in.