Shno's House of Z

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Jim, can you speak to this article?

BTW, my humidor is full and I have some good reds waiting.

I'm not sure why anyone would take anything negative from that article.

GM still (and it was always one of my biggest concerns/criticisms) has too many models off of one platform. For example off of the Delta platform, GM has a Chevrolet Cruze (nice global car) a Buick Verano (nice car for China and the US) and an Opel/Vauxhall Astra (a nice car only for Europe). Each one sucks up development dollars, marketing dollars, tooling dollars and plant dollars.

One more example here in the US. Why does GM need 3, THREE, yes 1, 2 and 3 versions of the Long Wheel Base Epsilon. Chevy Impala on it's way, Buick LaCrosse and the New (and yes awesome) Cadillac XTS? Other than some common parts, you have to design, test, develp and tool each of the unique parts and attributes. And there are a lot of significantly unique attributes. Each one has to be callibrated (remember the warranty discussions on how all the tuners claimed in two weeks after launch they had a better calibration than GM's????) and tuned for ride and handling. Hey Pete, how much work is it to confirm your parts work as you intend? Each one has to be crashed and certified. Lets not forget there was also a Saab 9.5.

Even the Short Wheel Base gives us Malibu and Regal. Really? Why? (and the sorely missed Saab 9.3)

And there are certainly more I am not yet at liberty to discuss.

So yes, GM has a lonnnnnngggggg way to go. And it isn't an easy road. Europe for example is all but a lost cause for both Ford and GM. It's a sink hole of money. So do you keep plugging along? or is there something with that French outfit PSA that can help for Europ? Is anyone in the US complaining about the goodness of the Ford Focus? or Fiesta? Nope. And GM is doing some of the same globally, but with 4 brands and 3 models. Who do you think is now more efficient?

So don't get bothered by articles like this. It shows that GM is at least becoming aware of it's issues and trying to do something about it. The only really bad thing forGM leadership is the topic of this article was coffee discussion for me and my compadres at GM. We for some reason got it and upper management that held the keys couldn't see it.

But in the very end, look at the hugely successful companies in the auto kingdom. A 3 Series varies in content around the world. But in China, Russia, and THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA everyone knows what a 3 Series is, does and stands for. And yes, BMW, AUDI and MB are all in China selling ONE MILLION UNITS per year..................EACH with fundamentally the same car. Yes each has a Long Wheel Base version to meet the unique China customer who is more likely to ride in the back seat than to drive, but still fundamentally the same.

So also look at (excluding VW who is doing some weird things buying brands) most OEMs. Other than VW and their buy their way to number one, most OEMs are still only managing one or two brands. GM is still trying to manage 6 around the world. Yes, Chevrolet, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, Buick, Cadillac and we won't add the Chinese or Indian JVs................or PSA.

So all this article is saying is GM recognizes it has a long road ahead and is for once at least trying to take the first steps.



Also, keep in mind the old GM marketing Pyramid. Chevy was value. If you wanted to up market for a nicer car you went to Oldsmobile. If you wanted some luxury but weren't rich you got a Buick. If you wanted a little performance you got a Pontiac and if you were loaded you baught a Cadillac. And historically, GM bought Holden and Opel just like the old GM did with Louis Chevrolet, Ransom Olds etc. And for the most part they let the run their own businesses. But in the new "global economy" that doesn't work.

But I ask you this, why shouldn't you be able to go to a Chevy dealer and buy the best Delta product? You can't. Buick is where you go if you want quiet..................Buick is where you go if you want that sweet 2.0L Turbo.

Annnnnnnnnnd yes, Buick exists because of China. If you could sell Chevys over there you might not see Buick here.

[Bhobbs]

So are you saying GM should just rebadge the same car for it's different brands without making them different in any way or what?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

So are you saying GM should just rebadge the same car for it's different brands without making them different in any way or what?

Jim will speak for himself, but what I think he is saying is less brands

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Jim will speak for himself, but what I think he is saying is less brands

Yep!

You can tune a car for different market tastes. For example Europeans favor handling and the Chinese favor ride and we tend to prefer a balanced approach. But you don't need a whole brand to do it or a completely and uniquely styled vehicle to do that.

And in the end when you get your volumes up your profit tends to go up too.

[JusticePete]

Brands with Value

Chevy USA
Buick China
Opel Europe?
Holden AU?
GMC USA?
Cadillac USA

If we strip down to Chevy, Buick and Cadillac can we maintain the share we have around the world?

Sorting out the Dealer network in the USA would be interesting.

Each franchise would have great range leading to increased profit and value.

If it didn't happen in the 'adjustment' can it happen now?

[Number 3]

It's not an easy task for sure.

GMC makes some pretty good money for GM. And you can't simply stop selling Buick in China. Globally you can see GM is essentially turning Opels into Buicks.

The key is you have to develop and maintain all of these models and brands. And if cant make them compelling in their own right then it becomes very difficult. And in the case of Opel GM is losing their shirts engineering a bunch of models(go look at the Opel website) only to be losing 100s of millions of dollars.

Don't take my comments as this is easy because it isn't. But GM has asked why do I need 5,000 more engineers than Hyundai. Now Hyundai doesn't have a full size truck which is a hugely complex endeavor in its own so the question, in my opinion, isn't entirely fair. But that is what GM is up against.

[2cnd chance]

I don't see why GM needs to fly under another brand in the UK and Australia, but I did shed a tear or two when the Trans Am and Formula Firebird died.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I don't see why GM needs to fly under another brand in the UK and Australia, but I did shed a tear or two when the Trans Am and Formula Firebird died.

In AU, Holden was once like Chevy in the USA. The Holden brand has value in AU. Switching Holden to Chevy / Buick / Cadillac would require a major PR investment. Opel may not sound like much to us in the USA, but the perspective in Europe would place the home built Opel well ahead of Chevy or Buick. This too would require a major PR investment. GM knows this and they are working on making Chevrolet a global brand. In my mind the handwriting is on the wall and we'll see this rolled out over whatever many years. The first step is to break down the fiefdoms.

#3,

2.99 says

[2cnd chance]

Kinda like Datsun to Nissan. That took years as they swapped, grew and shrunk the nameplates.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

In AU, Holden was once like Chevy in the USA. The Holden brand has value in AU. Switching Holden to Chevy / Buick / Cadillac would require a major PR investment. Opel may not sound like much to us in the USA, but the perspective in Europe would place the home built Opel well ahead of Chevy or Buick. This too would require a major PR investment. GM knows this and they are working on making Chevrolet a global brand. In my mind the handwriting is on the wall and we'll see this rolled out over whatever many years. The first step is to break down the fiefdoms.

#3,

2.99 says

And Opel has had a few very interesting vehicles over the years. One of my favorites was the mid'70s Opel GT that was almost like a "mini Vette".
Clyde

[Number 3]

Holden means what globally? Anything come to mind? Is it Chevy? Pretty much.

What I mean is that for global presence you need to have your brand and you model mean something.

Case in point, BMW sell almost 1/2 a million 3 Series around the world. It's a 3 everywhere and it's a BMW everywhere.

The Holden Commodore is a Lumina in the Middle East and it was a Pontiac G8 in the US.

My point is not that Holden doesn't mean something in Australia because it does. It is simply that Holden doesn't mean anything anywhere else in the world.

If nothing else, it costs money to try to differentiate the Holden brand name. And at very minimum, it costs money for unique badges, grills etc.

On a regional basis it makes perfect sense. But that isn't GM's concern anymore it's from a Global perspective that matters now.

Toyota/Lexus
VW/Audi (ok add Porsche and Seat)
Ford/Lincoln
BMW/Mini
Mercedes
Nissan/Infiniti
Chevy/Buick/Cadillac/GMC/Vauxhall/Opel/Holden/Baojun

Each brand has an image and message that must be cultivated and maintained. What does the brand stand for? What does it convey to the customer?

At least Daewoo is gone and that was mostly driven by the fact that when given an option to buy the "Chevy Package" many did. So many in fact that it made it clear Daewoo was bad even in Korea. Now they are all Chevrolets

Except you can also buy a Buick LaCrosse in Korea. It's called an Alpheon. They show Buick badging in the website, but not on the car. And you see it listed in the Chevy Korea website as a "luxury" model. So is Alpheon now a brand? a Model?

[Number 3]

On a much lighter note, I was Rick Rolled by the Chevrolet.com website this morning.

It kept opening pages to the point I had to reboot.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Holden means what globally? Anything come to mind? Is it Chevy? Pretty much.

What I mean is that for global presence you need to have your brand and you model mean something.

Case in point, BMW sell almost 1/2 a million 3 Series around the world. It's a 3 everywhere and it's a BMW everywhere.

The Holden Commodore is a Lumina in the Middle East and it was a Pontiac G8 in the US.

My point is not that Holden doesn't mean something in Australia because it does. It is simply that Holden doesn't mean anything anywhere else in the world.

If nothing else, it costs money to try to differentiate the Holden brand name. And at very minimum, it costs money for unique badges, grills etc.

On a regional basis it makes perfect sense. But that isn't GM's concern anymore it's from a Global perspective that matters now.

Toyota/Lexus
VW/Audi (ok add Porsche and Seat)
Ford/Lincoln
BMW/Mini
Mercedes
Nissan/Infiniti
Chevy/Buick/Cadillac/GMC/Vauxhall/Opel/Holden/Baojun

Each brand has an image and message that must be cultivated and maintained. What does the brand stand for? What does it convey to the customer?

At least Daewoo is gone and that was mostly driven by the fact that when given an option to buy the "Chevy Package" many did. So many in fact that it made it clear Daewoo was bad even in Korea. Now they are all Chevrolets

Except you can also buy a Buick LaCrosse in Korea. It's called an Alpheon. They show Buick badging in the website, but not on the car. And you see it listed in the Chevy Korea website as a "luxury" model. So is Alpheon now a brand? a Model?

I agree 100%.

Alpheon means Buick in the Korean language,














NOT!

[LOWDOWN]

Points to ponder:

Lexus, Acura and Infiniti were initially added for North American consumption (the Acura Legend was sold in Britain/Europe as a co-produced British-assembled "Sterling"...same name Ford Trucks became...and, unlamentably, long gone...). And they were added by single-Brand manufacturers to differentiate their new products AND their customers' buying/ownership experiences. Higher quality, higher prices, greater margins and expanded Market Share. "Halo" brands that have worked out rather well. They spoke to several consumer demands that weren't adequately and totally answered by the domestics. And the consumer is ALWAYS right...

Shedding nameplates/Divisions by GM is not a new/recent concept. Oakland...LaSalle...Cadet (stillborn)...Oldsmobile...Pontiac...Saturn...HUMM ER...

Canada: Mid-00s, GM-Canada enjoyed near 30% MS, and comfortably in 1st place. Then, oh-oh! Goodbye Pontiac, and then 40-some % of GM-Canada's dealers (83% had Pontiac on their signage) and today, GM-Canada is a distant 3rd (behind Ford and Chrysler) with well under 20% MS. Without aggressive fleet sales, they'd be 4th behind Toyota/Lexus... Why? Because Canadians loved their unique Chev-based Pontiacs for years 'n years, and continued to love them (Sunfire was the #1 selling retail compact and Montana outsold Venture, retail-wise, several years) after the Canadian versions were assimilated by their US counterparts. Sierra out-retailed Silverado many years as well. How could this be? Chev was duelled with Olds, and Pontiac was duelled with Buick, post-WWII. Pontiac-Buick sold GMC. And there were about as many Pontiac-Buick stores as Chev-Olds. More stores = more sales! What a concept! Reduce the number of stores, and you reduce the number of sales opportunities. Reduce the number of BRANDS and you reduce the number of sales opportunities, too...

There are many GMC owners who would rather drive an F-series, or Ram, or TUNDRA than drive a Chev truck...curious, maybe, but a FACT.

BTW, Australians LOVE their "Holdens"...and their economy is far enough away, and unique enough, that "Chevrolet" means very little/nothing to the non-enthusiast in Australia. Go over to GM Inside News and ask 'em...or better yet, ask Mark Reuss. He ran Holden for a time...

If you look at sales of Oldsmobile, pre-death announcement, Olds sold more than TWICE as many vehicles as Buick does today. "Oh, well..." If you look at Pontiac sales in '08, they sold just about TWICE as many vehicles in North America as Buick. "Oh, well..."

I'm here to tell you that Chevrolet will NOT maintain Corporate Market Share, all by itself, in the non-Luxury market. At best, you'll make Chevrolet the leading BRAND, but it will come at the expense of GM's total Market Share.

History...ignore it, and you're bound to repeat it...