Customer Complaint thread

[Sloppy Joe]

Originally Posted by vm1971

blame your slimey dealer, NOT GM.
its the dealers who can do this. my dealer is gonna charge 5000K over invoice. another guy in PA - MSRP. and the cool dude in michigan - a tad over MSRP.

sorry to hear it, though. i would ALSO march down there pissing and screaming and dude, you'll get your way with them.

GOOD LUCK
and dont ditch the car, ... its NOT the camaro's fault!

Last time I looked these signs were all over my dealership. If my dealer screws me, your telling my not to be mad at GM???? If the dealer is a dickhead and screwing customers, then it's GM's responsibility to make him clean up his act or immediately shoot him in the head as a dealer. Simple as that.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Edrock

My point is that laws are laws. You're gonna see this no matter what auto company you go with. Could easily happen with Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc.

Very true but I do not believe that a company can just throw up their hands and say "franchise laws, nothing we can do". Regardless, I think there are things that the manufacturers can do now without breaking any franchise laws. They all say the same thing anyways - "allocate vehicles in a fair and equitable manner".

Someone please tell me how the initial guide allocations, which was based on Corvette sales and area Mustangs sales (out of the GM dealers hands) were deemed legal under the allocation laws? Think about that for a second - that meant that the dealer in an area where everyone drives BMW's and Porsche's instead of Vettes and Mustangs got hosed by the process. That meant that the dealer who is out in northern Ontario (where everyone drives pick-ups) did not get as many Camaros as the same size dealership in a city where you would find more Corvettes and Mustangs. Perfectly legal under the franchise laws right?

Now as soon as R6P folks ask to build sold allocations before unsold allocations (a process where all dealers get treated fairly), everyone (who hasn't taken the time to read even 1 franchise law) starts going on about how building the car when it is sold is so illegal. Just rediculous. I'll say it again - SOMEBODY PLEASE SHOW ME ONE CLAUSE IN ONE FRANCHISE LAW THAT STATES A MANUFACTURER CANNOT BUILD THE ALLOCATED CARS IN THE ORDER THAT THEY ARE SOLD. Here is an opportunity for all you younglings to make me look like a fool. Take the challenge!

Time to stop debating if this is possible or not and get the final truth out.

[irocnroll]

Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe

Last time I looked these signs were all over my dealership. If my dealer screws me, your telling my not to be mad at GM???? If the dealer is a dickhead and screwing customers, then it's GM's responsibility to make him clean up his act or immediately shoot him in the head as a dealer. Simple as that.

Nothing in the dealer agreement that states the dealer has to sell below a certain cost. GM is not responsible for what the dealer decides to charge on their vehicles. Quit putting the blame on them.

[Bell040]

Originally Posted by irocnroll

Nothing in the dealer agreement that states the dealer has to sell below a certain cost. GM is not responsible for what the dealer decides to charge on their vehicles. Quit putting the blame on them.

them = GM = dealers

[VenomZ302]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

I agree, GM gets no pass from me on this. IMO Their names on it, legal jargon aside, I don't view them as separate entities.

So KB Toys or Toys R Us = Hasbro? It's basically the same situation, if you think about it. Toys R Us charges one thing and KB Toys charges/charged substantially more. Do you get mad at Hasbro for getting ripped off by KB Toys?

[Bell040]

does Toys-R-Us carry the KB toys logo?

[VenomZ302]

You're missing the point. Or maybe you're refusing to acknowledge it. The manufacturer isn't Toys R Us or KB Toys, but KB Toys or Toys R Us may carry the manufacturer's logos of Hasbro, Playmates, etc.

The fact of the matter is that anyone allowed to sell a product can charge whatever he or she wants. In my example, KB Toys charges $8 for something Toys R Us would sell for $5. Do you get mad at the manufacturer or the outlet for that? Dealers are nothing more than an outlet, regardless of whether you're talking about toys, cars, food, or whatever.

I'll agree that it's stupid that dealers mark up prices, but it's your choice to support that dealer. Neither the dealer nor GM is pointing a gun to your head and telling you to shop there.

[Bell040]

if KB toys presold you the toy at $5 but then decided to charge $8 when it arrived...

you could get pissed at KB and Hasbro

[VenomZ302]

Originally Posted by Bell040

if KB toys presold you the toy at $5 but then decided to charge $8 when it arrived...

you could get pissed at KB and Hasbro

No, you could get pissed at KB. The only way you'd be justified in getting pissed off at Hasbro is if they told you in the first place that it would be $5 and then they raised the price to $8.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by VenomZ302

You're missing the point. Or maybe you're refusing to acknowledge it. The manufacturer isn't Toys R Us or KB Toys, but KB Toys or Toys R Us may carry the manufacturer's logos of Hasbro, Playmates, etc.

The fact of the matter is that anyone allowed to sell a product can charge whatever he or she wants. In my example, KB Toys charges $8 for something Toys R Us would sell for $5. Do you get mad at the manufacturer or the outlet for that? Dealers are nothing more than an outlet, regardless of whether you're talking about toys, cars, food, or whatever.

I'll agree that it's stupid that dealers mark up prices, but it's your choice to support that dealer. Neither the dealer nor GM is pointing a gun to your head and telling you to shop there.

That is all 100% true and good points you've made. Do you think the manufacturer stands to gain sales if it focused it's allocation/sales/reward efforts on the company/franchise/stores that focused on turning that product over asap?

[Bell040]

Originally Posted by VenomZ302

No, you could get pissed at KB. The only way you'd be justified in getting pissed off at Hasbro is if they told you in the first place that it would be $5 and then they raised the price to $8.

Well I would be pissed at KB, Hasbro, their stockholders, and their janitors.

Most buisnesses recognize this and do whatever it takes to keep the customer happy.

[VenomZ302]

Originally Posted by Hylton

That is all 100% true and good points you've made. Do you think the manufacturer stands to gain sales if it focused it's allocation/sales/reward efforts on the company/franchise/stores that focused on turning that product over asap?

I would imagine they do, but then what happens to the small dealers/stores that don't get enough customers to generate the necessary sales for the good allocation?

For example, I ordered my Camaro from Marchant Chevy in Ravenel, SC. I ordered there because they charge $98 over invoice and they've got a good reputation. However, they're a small, family-owned (I think) dealership and, as far as I can tell, didn't get that many allocations. People are chomping at the bit for Camaros, but Rick Hendrick here in Charleston is charging 7K over MSRP for their one V6 Camaro sitting on the lot and I haven't heard of any non-pre-order sales for Marchant (I could be wrong). So where does that leave Marchant? Or does that count as turning the cars over ASAP?

Here's another thought I've had. My buddy owns a comic book shop. If he gets a really hot item (let's say Amazing Spider-Man #1 from the '60s), he'll mark it up a lot for the first week or so (but may not have the price tag visible). He's not doing this because he's a jerk. He needs people to know that he has such items in stock or comes across them somewhat regularly. The price keeps the collector's item visible long enough to get people interested in what he's selling and then he can bring the price down to a reasonable level. And if some lunatic comes into the store lusting for that issue and drops the insane price, he still wins.

I have no idea whether that translates to cars, but it seems like there may be some relevant application of that notion. However, that's off topic. Dealers should definitely sell pre-orders at the price they quoted upon written agreement.

[VenomZ302]

Originally Posted by Bell040

Well I would be pissed at KB, Hasbro, their stockholders, and their janitors.

Most buisnesses recognize this and do whatever it takes to keep the customer happy.

How does that make any logical sense? KB would be the only ones involved in the price hike.

[Edrock]

Well, all I know is, until laws change, these types of shennanigans will continue. Right now, GM could not do anything about this sort of thing LEGALLY even if they wanted to. Should GM do everything in their power and legal right to address situations with dealers such as this, absolutely. To what extent and what action they can take, I dunno, but would not expect there's much GM can do unfortunately. But I will not blame GM for the dealers that choose to engage in price gouging. If there is anything possibe GM can do to persuade these dealers to do the right thing, I think they should exhaust every option.