Tom Benson Nightmare (and a happy ending)

[ShAgMaN]

I promise to get back to you and tell you what happens. Thanks for all your input guys, its obvious you care about this car as much (or more than) me. Goodnight.

[mikenmar]

Originally Posted by jdanza

Yeah, you could go thru all the time and trouble of going to court but that will not get you the car.... I'm not even sure you can have a valid sales contract without the VIN #.
The best way to resolve it is all the members of this site call or email the dealer and complain to the dealer, it's worked before. I will do it if the member wants us to, and I hope others would do it for me.

I think you wasting your time with a lawsuit

It isn't that much time and trouble to file a small claims lawsuit. You file a couple forms you can download online, and show up at the court date with all your paperwork. I could do it all in about 4-5 hours I bet. (Of course I'm a lawyer, but there's no special knowledge of the law required.)

And while you won't get the car, you could get the $5k, which, if you wanted to, would let you go buy a very similar car from another dealer. Or you could keep the $5k and order another one, wait a couple more months. Might be worth it, for most folks $5k is a lot of money.

And I've never seen any law (at least not in this state) that says you need a VIN for a valid contract. If I'm wrong, please point me to the law.

Finally, merely the filing of a lawsuit (or even the threat of it) will convince many dealers to settle with you.

Please explain to me why this is a "joke".

[mikenmar]

BTW, here are a couple tactics that could help you win a small claims lawsuit even if you don't have it in writing, and all you have is an oral contract:

1. If you subpoena the salesman who made the deal (and you should if you can), ask the judge to put him under oath and simply ask him if there was such a deal for MSRP. He may lie, but maybe not. If he admits to the deal, that may be enough to satisfy the statute of frauds in some states

2. If you put down the deposit, argue that this is "partial performance" on the contract. That may get you around the statute of frauds as well.

3. Argue that you relied on the dealer's promise by not going to another dealer to order the car. Reliance allows you to assert "promissory estoppel", which technically is separate from a pure contract claim (yet another way of getting around the statute of frauds.)

[steviefranchize]

was it 31k plus ttl? or are they charging the 35 plus ttl?

[nards444]

Paper doesnt mean anything. There is no breach of contract. A seller has the right to sell something for whatever they want. Its not like you paid a full deposit then wanted more and then wouldnt refund your money, and you had on paper for MSRP. You couldnt take a written paper saying they will sell it to you for MSRP to court and win. There is no legal binding agreement for anything here. Seller has the right to change price, not sell at all dont matter what you agree on. Now if its on paper and you paid for something or a servive and they didnt provide those, a business would then be held liable, for either nor producing a product or refunding money

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by ShAgMaN

Alright, thanks for your help Legend, I'm going to wait a see what happens tomorrow.

Moderators, if one of you can suspend this thread it might help, as it appears the dealership wants me to avoid posting until this is matter is resolved. They said to avoid this forum (Camaro5 must be huge), and until I get an official word on this, I'm going to stop posting. Thanks everyone.

Originally Posted by ShAgMaN

I promise to get back to you and tell you what happens. Thanks for all your input guys, its obvious you care about this car as much (or more than) me. Goodnight.

Shagman,
I personally think it should stay up so the dealer can get the full weight of this web site bearing down on it. So, send me a PM if you'd like me to close it.

The fact that they want you to avoid this site is a clear indication that they know they are in the wrong.

Let me know how we can help.

[Gameover]

Originally Posted by nards444

Paper doesnt mean anything. There is no breach of contract. A seller has the right to sell something for whatever they want. Its not like you paid a full deposit then wanted more and then wouldnt refund your money, and you had on paper for MSRP. You couldnt take a written paper saying they will sell it to you for MSRP to court and win. There is no legal binding agreement for anything here. Seller has the right to change price, not sell at all dont matter what you agree on. Now if its on paper and you paid for something or a servive and they didnt provide those, a business would then be held liable, for either nor producing a product or refunding money

So this wouldn't bother you if it happen to you!

[Treadstone]

Originally Posted by nards444

Paper doesnt mean anything. There is no breach of contract. A seller has the right to sell something for whatever they want. Its not like you paid a full deposit then wanted more and then wouldnt refund your money, and you had on paper for MSRP. You couldnt take a written paper saying they will sell it to you for MSRP to court and win. There is no legal binding agreement for anything here. Seller has the right to change price, not sell at all dont matter what you agree on. Now if its on paper and you paid for something or a servive and they didnt provide those, a business would then be held liable, for either nor producing a product or refunding money

Please don't quit your day job, your legal advice is so so so wrong.

The seller waives his right to "sell something for what ever they want", when they sign an agreement to sell it at a set price.

That's the entire purpose of the contract.

[stovt001]

I want to state this as clearly as possible. I tried stating this on one of your earlier posts, but it got deleted while I tried. I've had to say this over and over and over and over, but word is slow getting out - getting pissed at GM and trying to spite them is not the right thing to do. Dealerships are NOT owned or operated by GM. Period. End of story. Furthermore, ridiculous state franchise laws make it all but impossible for GM to revoke the franchises of bad dealers. Look at GM and Chrysler in Washington DC today. The government pushed them into bankruptcy and made a real big fuss about downsizing their overgrown dealer network, and now that they made cuts, the politicians are throwing a screaming fit. Dealers have lots and lots of power. I'm sure GM would love to cut any dealer that screws a customer over, but they simply can't. No matter how bad the dealer makes them look, the states and their franchise laws will side with the dealer every time. So I repeat, don't be upset with GM. If you go for Chrysler and their bloated land yacht that couldn't turn a corner if it was given a 5 mile diameter banked circle, you stand just as much a chance getting screwed over by another crappy dealer. My advice is to do your best to find a good dealer in your area. We have a lot of Texans here who would love to point you in the right direction. And next time, get everything written down, because a written and signed contract is legally binding and will be upheld in small claims court.

[Gameover]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I want to state this as clearly as possible. I tried stating this on one of your earlier posts, but it got deleted while I tried. I've had to say this over and over and over and over, but word is slow getting out - getting pissed at GM and trying to spite them is not the right thing to do. Dealerships are NOT owned or operated by GM. Period. End of story. Furthermore, ridiculous state franchise laws make it all but impossible for GM to revoke the franchises of bad dealers. Look at GM and Chrysler in Washington DC today. The government pushed them into bankruptcy and made a real big fuss about downsizing their overgrown dealer network, and now that they made cuts, the politicians are throwing a screaming fit. Dealers have lots and lots of power. I'm sure GM would love to cut any dealer that screws a customer over, but they simply can't. No matter how bad the dealer makes them look, the states and their franchise laws will side with the dealer every time. So I repeat, don't be upset with GM. If you go for Chrysler and their bloated land yacht that couldn't turn a corner if it was given a 5 mile diameter banked circle, you stand just as much a chance getting screwed over by another crappy dealer. My advice is to do your best to find a good dealer in your area. We have a lot of Texans here who would love to point you in the right direction. And next time, get everything written down, because a written and signed contract is legally binding and will be upheld in small claims court.

Who said GM! Where talking about one dealership!

[mikenmar]

Originally Posted by nards444

Paper doesnt mean anything. There is no breach of contract. A seller has the right to sell something for whatever they want. Its not like you paid a full deposit then wanted more and then wouldnt refund your money, and you had on paper for MSRP. You couldnt take a written paper saying they will sell it to you for MSRP to court and win. There is no legal binding agreement for anything here. Seller has the right to change price, not sell at all dont matter what you agree on. Now if its on paper and you paid for something or a servive and they didnt provide those, a business would then be held liable, for either nor producing a product or refunding money

Please show me what laws you are relying on the for the above claims.

[firstmate]

Hey Shagmar, I sure hope this works for you. At least the dealer took this as "heat" on him as he should and said let's try to work this out. My dealer said I was playing games and the car was basically no longer for sale to me, the end. I hope yours turns out much much better. Good luck to you!!!

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Gameover

Who said GM! Where talking about one dealership!

The OP said he is selling his Tahoe to spite GM and will never buy GM again. Also, in one of his earlier deleted posts he railed against GM and stated further that he was not only pissed at the dealer, but at GM as well. See below (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by ShAgMaN

I’m now considering saving to buy a Challenger and selling my Tahoe to spite GM, which may be wrong, but I’m emotionally disturbed.

Originally Posted by valleybacker

This is what is wrong with GM in the first place. Passing the buck, great mentality!

If someone is licensed to use your name to sell your cars, I'd say they are an extension of you and thus GM must take interest in their actions (b/c it reflects poorly on them).


GM needs to take control of their dealers! It starts from the top!

There is a real big difference between "want to" and "able to". I used to work for a large dealership chain that had franchises from many different manufacturers. Trust me on this: there is so much crap the dealers can pull that the manufacturers are legally powerless to do anything about. GM knows they have dealers giving them a bad name, and trust me they are trying to get them shut down. They just revoked the franchises of thousands of under-performing dealers, and guess what? Congress is now demanding for GM and Chrysler's heads on a platter because the dealerships are very politically powerful.

[Treadstone]

Originally Posted by stovt001

There is a real big difference between "want to" and "able to". I used to work for a large dealership chain that had franchises from many different manufacturers. Trust me on this: there is so much crap the dealers can pull that the manufacturers are legally powerless to do anything about. GM knows they have dealers giving them a bad name, and trust me they are trying to get them shut down. They just revoked the franchises of thousands of under-performing dealers, and guess what? Congress is now demanding for GM and Chrysler's heads on a platter because the dealerships are very politically powerful.

See dealers used to have power over them until 2 days ago. GM is government owned, sorry but if GM really wanted to they could put their foot down and squash alot of this crap.

The franchise license for instance may be re done.