Tom Benson Nightmare (and a happy ending)

[jking]

Originally Posted by songsj

I hate to say it but what really causes these problems is crazy people who are willing to pay over sticker price to begin with. I know some can afford it and it's a free market but these pricks who are jerking people around on cars they ordered months ago should have their franchises cancelled!!!!

This is what I've been saying in some of my other posts, that as long as there's folks who are willing to pay over MSRP, then dealers will just keep doing this.

I test drove a demo Camaro at a dealership where I live about three weeks ago. It wasn't for sale. At that time, they suggested I order one but there was no mention about it being over MSRP. I decided a few days later to just wait till next year when I'm in a more favorable financial position.

Well, two days ago the salesman called me and told me that the demo is now for sale. It's at MSRP he said, but it has 600 miles on it. If you order one with them, it's $1500 over MSRP on the V6, and $3000 over on the SS. He was trying to impress upon me that the demo at MSRP was a bargain! I'm not going to pay sticker on a car with 600 miles on it, besides, I'm sticking to my guns about waiting a while until I'm ready. Besides, the demo was a red LT1. I want an RJT LT2.

But when I mentioned to him that he's selling a demo with 600 miles on it at MSRP? He said "oh, we'll sell it, no problem". I'm sure they will!

[jdanza]

Originally Posted by mikenmar

It isn't that much time and trouble to file a small claims lawsuit. You file a couple forms you can download online, and show up at the court date with all your paperwork. I could do it all in about 4-5 hours I bet. (Of course I'm a lawyer, but there's no special knowledge of the law required.)

And while you won't get the car, you could get the $5k, which, if you wanted to, would let you go buy a very similar car from another dealer. Or you could keep the $5k and order another one, wait a couple more months. Might be worth it, for most folks $5k is a lot of money.

And I've never seen any law (at least not in this state) that says you need a VIN for a valid contract. If I'm wrong, please point me to the law.

Finally, merely the filing of a lawsuit (or even the threat of it) will convince many dealers to settle with you.

Please explain to me why this is a "joke".

The real world unfortunetly does not work quite like that. The forum applying pressure is the way to go.

[nards444]

Originally Posted by mikenmar

Please show me what laws you are relying on the for the above claims.

Try to take that peice of paper to judge judy, you would get smacked down. And in any case any sort of purchase offer I have seen, in fine print its always stated seller has the right to refuse sale or purchase for any reason.

Im not saying it doesnt suck for the guy, but trying to be all big bad and saying im going to court, wont do anything, and most of you big talkers wouldnt do anything about anyways. With that said if he got the 1SS for 31, he obviously didnt figure taxes or reg fees. If you add it up it might be right

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by ljustin293

That is a writen agreement...yes it matters...

papers matter now..not handshakes like they used to.

Technially I verbal contract is just as go as a written contract in the court of law. So really you don't need it in writing. Someone else must have heard you ask this and get confirmation and therefore you should fight for your deal.

[1320junkie]

Originally Posted by ssump29

Technially I verbal contract is just as go as a written contract in the court of law. So really you don't need it in writing. Someone else must have heard you ask this and get confirmation and therefore you should fight for your deal.

That's not true in every state

[N6504X]

I think the smoking gun on any of these issues is the deposit. When you take an order from someone and collect a deposit that, at any time in the process becomes non-refundable, that is a contract binding both parties to perform. It is reasonable to expect to pay MSRP or less for a car. Having said that, I don't understand people's hesitancy to ask for a written agreement on price. You're not going to offend the dealer any more than you are offended by having to put down a deposit. If they get weird about it, then walk out. They obviously intend to shaft you.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by N6504X

I think the smoking gun on any of these issues is the deposit. When you take an order from someone and collect a deposit that, at any time in the process becomes non-refundable, that is a contract binding both parties to perform. It is reasonable to expect to pay MSRP or less for a car. Having said that, I don't understand people's hesitancy to ask for a written agreement on price. You're not going to offend the dealer any more than you are offended by having to put down a deposit. If they get weird about it, then walk out. They obviously intend to shaft you.

The only way you can avoid these issues is if you write on the invoice that the dealer waves his right to renogotiate the contract. Otherwise the fine print on the back of the bill of sale will apply and you are screwed.

What fine print you ask? Look for something that says "dealer reserves the right to blah, blah, blah at anytime because blah, blah, blah. All perfectly legal and a business practice which GM supports.

Anyone reading this and waiting for their car should take a copy of your bill of sale back to the dealer and put a "waive" clause on the bill and have the salesman sign it. Some of you are going to get caught as well.

[ShAgMaN]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Time out....

A 1SS goes for what....$30,995? Add in the destination charge and polished wheels.
.....IF that is all you ordered.

Added up, that equals roughly $32,250. Now...add in taxes and let's see...

= 34,265.

So, you are off $1,435ish...somehow. Ask them to put it down on paper and figure it out. Ask how they are upcharging you and mention that this is up for all to see, etc. But, tell them to knock it off...I have been pushing people to them too...since Ancira has been screwing everyone over and I'd hate to give them a bad name too...

Tag, the agreement made was $31,465 which I was specifically told over and over by the saleswoman includes delivery. I realize tax, title and license is separate, and was prepared to pay on top the cost. This markup did not include any of this. They straight out told me there is a 4,100 markup, and that most dealers are marking up 5K.

[MontyCarlo]

Originally Posted by ShAgMaN

Tag, the agreement made was $31,465 which I was specifically told over and over by the saleswoman includes delivery. I realize tax, title and license is separate, and was prepared to pay on top the cost. This markup did not include any of this. They straight out told me there is a 4,100 markup, and that most dealers are marking up 5K.

Go to truecar.com and get the numbers to prove to them that most of these cars are NOT being sold for 5K over. 5K over is not market price. It's not supply and demand. The real market price, depending on your trim and options, is $500-1K over. Put all the info into that web site and print out the page from the "Details" tab that shows a histogram of prices.

[alex33x]

Originally Posted by ShAgMaN

Tag, the agreement made was $31,465 which I was specifically told over and over by the saleswoman includes delivery. I realize tax, title and license is separate, and was prepared to pay on top the cost. This markup did not include any of this. They straight out told me there is a 4,100 markup, and that most dealers are marking up 5K.

Remember there was a price increase, though and most of us are subject to that price increase. If they are telling the car is $35,700 out the door including tax and title your mark up is not that much, I would take the car.

Now if they're really trying to screw you with 4-5k I would walk.

[mikenmar]

Originally Posted by jdanza

The real world unfortunetly does not work quite like that. The forum applying pressure is the way to go.

I'm a lawyer. I'm licensed to practice law, and I'm in court all the time. I think I know how it works....

And there's no reason you can't use forum pressure at the same you file a suit in small claims court.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by mikenmar

I'm a lawyer. I'm licensed to practice law, and I'm in court all the time. I think I know how it works....

Get ready for a few PM's bro.....

[mikenmar]

Originally Posted by nards444

Try to take that peice of paper to judge judy, you would get smacked down.

I'll ask you again: Please point me to the law you are referring to.

This is the Internet, and the vast majority of law is online. Surely, if you were right, you could point to a single example of a law that backs up what you say.

Can you even tell me the elements of a contract? This is contract law 101.

Originally Posted by nards444

And in any case any sort of purchase offer I have seen, in fine print its always stated seller has the right to refuse sale or purchase for any reason.

I have a written agreement from my dealer, and it says nothing of the sort.

[mikenmar]

Originally Posted by Hylton

The only way you can avoid these issues is if you write on the invoice that the dealer waves his right to renogotiate the contract. Otherwise the fine print on the back of the bill of sale will apply and you are screwed.

What fine print you ask? Look for something that says "dealer reserves the right to blah, blah, blah at anytime because blah, blah, blah. All perfectly legal and a business practice which GM supports.

I have a written agreement from my dealer, and it says nothing of the sort.