Fuse Pull: Low Octane Fuel Fix For L99 and LS3. Reset Fuel Map for High Octane Fuel.

[RyanBoles]

My two cents...you would think with all the brilliant minds developing these great engines, some one could have gotten 400 horses from regular pump gas ( or close to 400). At the same time Fords pony was only making what, 300 at the fly wheel, and in 2002 GM was producing (correct me if im wrong) 325 at the fly wheel and I dont recall any of my fbody buddies pulling fuses and the only time they used a higher octane was after they tuned their cars, mustang guys included. My point is why couldnt we get a high out put power plant with regular gas? I know it could have been done. Do the new 12' model 5.0s require 93 or a fuse pull? This whole subject just baffles me. The owners manual suggests 93, so thats what I put in it even though its breaking me. It would be nice to get a great performing car on regular pump gas but I guess i would be asking for to much. Im open to anyone who wants to explain this whole thing to me.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

I am not saying the tune is good or bad regarding the timing, you don't have to worry about pulling fuses if you have a tune and a tune does so much more as well....but many feel it will make it hard to retain powertrain warranty should you have a major component fail so....

If I was of the no tune mindset, which I am not of course, I would fill it up with 93/91 and run a tank through, fill it up again with 93/91, pull the fuses and never look back (and always run premium). Yeah it's going to learn to a safe level for the fuel, that's a good thing. Pulling fuses isn't going to void any warranty.

Didn't mean a fuse pull would void a warranty, of course...I should have expressed that better...lol

But as far as the warranty...In your opinion, is there any reason why what is done by a "tune" to improve this octane-table-performance business cannot be done by a dealership? Could the same thing not be accomplished under a "tsb" to satisfy the customers and maintain the warranty? Why do you think GM does not want to perform the same "tune" that would eliminate the need for a fuse pull?

Thanks again.

[RyanBoles]

But as far as the warranty...In your opinion, is there any reason why what is done by a "tune" to improve this octane-table-performance business cannot be done by a dealership? Could the same thing not be accomplished under a "tsb" to satisfy the customers and maintain the warranty? Why do you think GM does not want to perform the same "tune" that would eliminate the need for a fuse pull?

Thanks again.

I fully agree with this guy about GM fixing the tune!

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by RyanBoles

My two cents...you would think with all the brilliant minds developing these great engines, some one could have gotten 400 horses from regular pump gas ( or close to 400). At the same time Fords pony was only making what, 300 at the fly wheel, and in 2002 GM was producing (correct me if im wrong) 325 at the fly wheel and I dont recall any of my fbody buddies pulling fuses and the only time they used a higher octane was after they tuned their cars, mustang guys included. My point is why couldnt we get a high out put power plant with regular gas? I know it could have been done. Do the new 12' model 5.0s require 93 or a fuse pull? This whole subject just baffles me. The owners manual suggests 93, so thats what I put in it even though its breaking me. It would be nice to get a great performing car on regular pump gas but I guess i would be asking for to much. Im open to anyone who wants to explain this whole thing to me.

keep in mind pump gas today is swill compared to good old fashioned ethanol free gas in 2001 and 2002. the real limiting factor is certainly not technology or design. you can only make so much power on water, lol. put some VP race gas in there and tune it and see how strong the car runs, Night and Day does not even begin to describe it.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by 90503

Didn't mean a fuse pull would void a warranty, of course...I should have expressed that better...lol

But as far as the warranty...In your opinion, is there any reason why what is done by a "tune" to improve this octane-table-performance business cannot be done by a dealership? Could the same thing not be accomplished under a "tsb" to satisfy the customers and maintain the warranty? Why do you think GM does not want to perform the same "tune" that would eliminate the need for a fuse pull?

Thanks again.

The calibration from GM allows for a variety of fuel qualities and octanes. You can't calibrate a single timing map for all the cars due to build tolerances, weather and altitude differences, driving styles, fuel quality differences even among premium much less lower octanes, etc etc. There would be cars out there way down on power and there would be cars out there pinging down the road non-stop. There has to be a grey medium where everyone can live.

A dealer can't alter the tune in the car, only upload a set flash (like when you update the firmware on your camera or phone). You don't really know what and how the changes were done, just the features of the change.

GM could do whatever they want with respect to the learn logic of course. But they almost HAVE to set the high octane table to high and the low octane table too low. How the tune adapts in between is subject to debate.

Like I said, a tuner can change the criteria of the learn logic (some of it at least). Personally, I don't see the issue. Yes, pull the fuses once if it had bad gas. Run premium and stop worrying about it. It's not a big deal, just something people can fuss over.

[Higgs Boson]

Here you can see on a stock 2010 SS the difference between the High and Low Octane tables and the criteria that is used to move between them.

[RyanBoles]

keep in mind pump gas today is swill compared to good old fashioned ethanol free gas in 2001 and 2002. the real limiting factor is certainly not technology or design. you can only make so much power on water, lol. put some VP race gas in there and tune it and see how strong the car runs, Night and Day does not even begin to describe it.

I understand what your saying about the quality of our current gas. I just feel that if the cars computer isnt functioning like it should then it should be fixed, and not by pulling fuses or buying a 400$ handheld. Why cant GM just simply rewrite the code and reflash the cars?

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by RyanBoles

I understand what your saying about the quality of our current gas. I just feel that if the cars computer isnt functioning like it should then it should be fixed, and not by pulling fuses or buying a 400$ handheld. Why cant GM just simply rewrite the code and reflash the cars?

see above. there is really no reason to rewrite any code. It isn't feasible, IMO.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

The calibration from GM allows for a variety of fuel qualities and octanes. You can't calibrate a single timing map for all the cars due to build tolerances, weather and altitude differences, driving styles, fuel quality differences even among premium much less lower octanes, etc etc. There would be cars out there way down on power and there would be cars out there pinging down the road non-stop. There has to be a grey medium where everyone can live.

A dealer can't alter the tune in the car, only upload a set flash (like when you update the firmware on your camera or phone). You don't really know what and how the changes were done, just the features of the change.

GM could do whatever they want with respect to the learn logic of course. But they almost HAVE to set the high octane table to high and the low octane table too low. How the tune adapts in between is subject to debate.

Like I said, a tuner can change the criteria of the learn logic (some of it at least). Personally, I don't see the issue. Yes, pull the fuses once if it had bad gas. Run premium and stop worrying about it. It's not a big deal, just something people can fuss over.

I can understand that argument...to a point...I would love to be able to pull the fuses once, keep running premium, and be done...The "fuss" is that even though premium is put in after a fuse pull, it does seem to fizzle out over time...and runs like a bat outta hell after another fuse pull, even though premium was always used...

It's like we're getting cheated out of performance and response for no good reason...and to "fix" this with a "tune" voids the warranty...I'll throw in the towel...lol...and just keep pulling the fuses from time to time...Thanks.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by 90503

I can understand that argument...to a point...I would love to be able to pull the fuses once, keep running premium, and be done...The "fuss" is that even though premium is put in after a fuse pull, it does seem to fizzle out over time...and runs like a bat outta hell after another fuse pull, even though premium was always used...

It's like we're getting cheated out of performance and response for no good reason...and to "fix" this with a "tune" voids the warranty...I'll throw in the towel...lol...and just keep pulling the fuses from time to time...Thanks.

That's because the "bat outta hell" feeling you get is artificial and temporary. You are pinging due to high timing so it pulls some out where necessary. It will never stay there. I can pump the timing up real high and make the car feel incredible right up until it melts.

There has to be a line where chasing the bat outta hell feeling has to come to an end. Chasing more spark timing is not the answer here. Better fuel is. A good tune is. Not over riding factory settings without understanding what they are. Heck, you could just disable your knock sensors and achieve the same thing. Why doesn't anyone do that? Because they KNOW the consequences. Why are they ignored here?

[E.T.]

Originally Posted by RyanBoles

I understand what your saying about the quality of our current gas. I just feel that if the cars computer isnt functioning like it should then it should be fixed, and not by pulling fuses or buying a 400$ handheld. Why cant GM just simply rewrite the code and reflash the cars?

That's a very good question. If they keep this up, they're going to keep getting spanked by Ford.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by E.T.

That's a very good question. If they keep this up, they're going to keep getting spanked by Ford.

Knock learn doesn't sell cars lol. I'd say the Camaro weight is a bigger problem. It's a pig. Oh you mean in a drag race? Psh. Camaro is outselling Mustang since 2010. That's what GM cares about. Their shareholders, baby!

[E.T.]

Yep, it seems like they choose making money over offering performance. I'm disappointed that they don't offer any real performance packages. I would've loved to get better gears as an option, but that wasn't possible. Finally, they release the 1LE, but I'm sure as heck not gonna trade in for that. AFM. Really? Let's make a big, bad 6.2L engine into a 4-banger. Great idea. I'm getting off topic here, but it just seems that Ford has taken the edge when it comes to performance, and that's how it's gonna stay if GM doesn't realize it's unacceptable to sell a car that doesn't run as advertised, without doing magical fuse pulls.

I love my Camaro, and I've done a lot to it to get it running the way I feel it should have right out of the box. Who knows when or if I'll buy another high performance car, but if they keep this stuff up, I know it won't be a Chevy. Just sayin'

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by E.T.

Yep, it seems like they choose making money over offering performance. I'm disappointed that they don't offer any real performance packages. I would've loved to get better gears as an option, but that wasn't possible. Finally, they release the 1LE, but I'm sure as heck not gonna trade in for that. AFM. Really? Let's make a big, bad 6.2L engine into a 4-banger. Great idea. I'm getting off topic here, but it just seems that Ford has taken the edge when it comes to performance, and that's how it's gonna stay if GM doesn't realize it's unacceptable to sell a car that doesn't run as advertised, without doing magical fuse pulls.

I love my Camaro, and I've done a lot to it to get it running the way I feel it should have right out of the box. Who knows when or if I'll buy another high performance car, but if they keep this stuff up, I know it won't be a Chevy. Just sayin'

you gotta do what you gotta do.