ZL1 fueled by E85 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

CORNFED · 09-08-2012, 10:33 AM

I want to share my experience of tuning my 2013 ZL1 on E85. To begin, I have ran all my vehicles on E85 since 1999 and have put on approximately 500,000 miles on flex-fuel and non-fuel vehicles over the years with no maintenance issues. For the non-flex fuel motors I have blended my own ethanol and gas to 30 to 40 percent ethanol if i do not add an aftermarket conversion kit. My main motivation is to utilize the 105 octane of E85 to increase performance while using a pure American fuel.

June 7, 2013 I took delivery of my ZL1. I decided to transition the fuel over during the break-in period and prior to the tuning it on E85. I wanted to see how the EFI would adjust on its own and i was not too concerned about a lean Air to Fuel ratio condition due to running at less than 4000 RPM's. With that in mind, for the first 2 tanks i used regular 93 octane which contains 10 percent ethanol. For the 3rd tank I blended 5 gallons of E85 (E85 is 83 percent ethanol and 17 percent natural gasoline during the summer in Michigan) and the rest of the tank was 93 octane E10 with a Net blend is approximately E30. Next tank E50 and then E85 for about 5 tanks before the dyno and tuning.

ZZ Performance in Wyoming, MI baselined the car on E-85 before making any adjustments. The Dyno results were 505 RWHP with no changes but found the fuel pump was at 40 percent at idle to address the lean condition at the factory 14.5 to 1 AFR. The fuel pump was maxed at about 5100 RPM's and then began to run lean. They ended up lowering the AFR to 9.5 to 1 and posting 525 RWHP. Stock on 93 octane gas this car should be about 495 RWHP.

Net result= 30 more HP with enough fuel pump and injector up to 6100 RPM's. Not enough beyond that as it starts to lean out.

Cost= $315

audiomikej · 09-08-2012, 02:00 PM

Very cool! thanks for sharing, I was thinking about taking it a step further. Pulley swap for a few more PSI of boost, and running E85. Looks like the ZL1 would also need a fuel pump upgrade and larger injectors.

8cd03gro · 09-08-2012, 06:04 PM

E85 is gods gift to boosted motors. I would love to see what a zl with a smaller blower pulley, bigger injectors and some e85 could do. It would help quite a bit with the heat soaking.

Russell James · 09-08-2012, 07:38 PM

It may have only cost you $315, but how much is a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty worth. Cause now that is gone.

'11CamaroLS · 09-08-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell James

It may have only cost you $315, but how much is a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty worth. Cause now that is gone.

Im assuming he doesnt care, and so do alot of other camaro owners on here lol. very interesting about the E85, so much potential

Legendary Umbra · 09-09-2012, 11:19 PM

jimmy5 · 09-09-2012, 11:46 PM

e85 is already beginning to be looked away from, e85 never even made it to my area, and a lot of people griped about it taking away from the food supply.

redredrage · 09-09-2012, 11:53 PM

I've been using a 6gallon blend (45% ethanol) of e85 plus 89 octane (10 gal) for 20k miles with out a tune and its noticeably better for power compared to iowas 91 octane.

Fwiw I'm now paying $3.3 per gal instead of $4.1 per galgal. The city economy is nearly unaffected and the highway at 68mph goes from 27.5 mpg to 25.2...... it was nearly a dollar difference before the droubt and I read a goverment report that said its cost after refining was $1.5.....

I personally think ethanol and bio diesel is the future for cars, highway and off highway along with variable displacement plus forced induction 2 cycle technology.... but hey I'm just a design engineer who has seen 4 fortune 100 companies.

rpepka · 09-10-2012, 05:22 AM

Is the Fuel Pump inside of the gas tank?

*mlee* · 09-10-2012, 05:33 AM

Great Thread... Subscribed...

And Welcome to C5..

Monsterpost · 09-10-2012, 10:29 PM

I run E85 in my Lightning and I love the stuff. Of course I had to upgrade the fuel system from the pumps, lines, rails, injecters and of course a dyno tune. As stated above, 105 oct which means you can go nuts with the timing. Fuel milage does suffer some but its just a toy so I don't really care what it gets. It also runs cooler so some of the heat soak you guys are haveing e85 will help with that.

Russell James · 09-11-2012, 09:42 AM

Lubricity is another factor to consider. Spill some E85 on the concrete, some 93 octane next to it. Slide your foot through each. Which one would you like your fuel pump, rings, valve stems... lubricated by. For me, not the one that my foot won't slide in.

I've seen a long term fleet study of heavy use, high mileage vehicles A - B tested with E85 vs gasoline. Less ring, cyl wall, cam, valve stem... wear with gasoline. Kinda makes sense, since it's slippery and alcohol isn't.

If a fuel pump is maxed out, and now using a fuel with significantly less lubricity.... I'm not thinking that is a recipe for longevity. I'd only use E85 in something designed and validated for E85, but that's just me.

MyIBMssRS · 09-11-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell James

Lubricity is another factor to consider. Spill some E85 on the concrete, some 93 octane next to it. Slide your foot through each. Which one would you like your fuel pump, rings, valve stems... lubricated by. For me, not the one that my foot won't slide in.

I've seen a long term fleet study of heavy use, high mileage vehicles A - B tested with E85 vs gasoline. Less ring, cyl wall, cam, valve stem... wear with gasoline. Kinda makes sense, since it's slippery and alcohol isn't.

If a fuel pump is maxed out, and now using a fuel with significantly less lubricity.... I'm not thinking that is a recipe for longevity. I'd only use E85 in something designed and validated for E85, but that's just me.

I wouldn't drop up to $60k on a sports car and then mess with the fuel to save a few bucks. It costs money to play the game.

2012ZL1 · 09-11-2012, 12:57 PM

It does say specifically in the owners manual to not run alcohol or blended alchol gas mixtures in the ZL1.
I guess if you add the correct top end lubes and add a bunch of boost and program for an alcohol burn it might be ok, but there are better ways to make more power out of this engine imho.
I csn think of better ways to lose my powertrain warranty than running alcohol mix.

09-08-2012, 10:33 AM	#1
CORNFED Drives: 2013 ZL1 Inferno Orange, BLK Stripe Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Ada, MI Posts: 1	ZL1 fueled by E85 I want to share my experience of tuning my 2013 ZL1 on E85. To begin, I have ran all my vehicles on E85 since 1999 and have put on approximately 500,000 miles on flex-fuel and non-fuel vehicles over the years with no maintenance issues. For the non-flex fuel motors I have blended my own ethanol and gas to 30 to 40 percent ethanol if i do not add an aftermarket conversion kit. My main motivation is to utilize the 105 octane of E85 to increase performance while using a pure American fuel. June 7, 2013 I took delivery of my ZL1. I decided to transition the fuel over during the break-in period and prior to the tuning it on E85. I wanted to see how the EFI would adjust on its own and i was not too concerned about a lean Air to Fuel ratio condition due to running at less than 4000 RPM's. With that in mind, for the first 2 tanks i used regular 93 octane which contains 10 percent ethanol. For the 3rd tank I blended 5 gallons of E85 (E85 is 83 percent ethanol and 17 percent natural gasoline during the summer in Michigan) and the rest of the tank was 93 octane E10 with a Net blend is approximately E30. Next tank E50 and then E85 for about 5 tanks before the dyno and tuning. ZZ Performance in Wyoming, MI baselined the car on E-85 before making any adjustments. The Dyno results were 505 RWHP with no changes but found the fuel pump was at 40 percent at idle to address the lean condition at the factory 14.5 to 1 AFR. The fuel pump was maxed at about 5100 RPM's and then began to run lean. They ended up lowering the AFR to 9.5 to 1 and posting 525 RWHP. Stock on 93 octane gas this car should be about 495 RWHP. Net result= 30 more HP with enough fuel pump and injector up to 6100 RPM's. Not enough beyond that as it starts to lean out. Cost= $315

09-09-2012, 11:19 PM	#6
Legendary Umbra Drives: 2013 2SS/RS 1LE Summit White Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: TeXaS Posts: 29	__________________

09-10-2012, 05:22 AM	#9
rpepka Drives: 2013 ZL1 # 2195 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bradenton, FL Posts: 965	Is the Fuel Pump inside of the gas tank? __________________ http://www.sarasotahomestore.com/

09-10-2012, 05:33 AM	#10
mlee CamaroFans.com Drives: ZLE & ZR2 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Conroe, TX Posts: 38,001 View My Garage	Great Thread... Subscribed... And Welcome to C5.. __________________

09-08-2012, 02:00 PM	#2
audiomikej Drives: the wife crazy talking Camaros Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 277 View My Garage	Very cool! thanks for sharing, I was thinking about taking it a step further. Pulley swap for a few more PSI of boost, and running E85. Looks like the ZL1 would also need a fuel pump upgrade and larger injectors.

09-08-2012, 06:04 PM	#3
8cd03gro Drives: 2005 STi corn fed Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,997	E85 is gods gift to boosted motors. I would love to see what a zl with a smaller blower pulley, bigger injectors and some e85 could do. It would help quite a bit with the heat soaking.

09-08-2012, 07:38 PM	#4
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	It may have only cost you $315, but how much is a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty worth. Cause now that is gone.

09-09-2012, 11:46 PM	#7
jimmy5 Drives: 2012 ZL1 #450 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Big Spring, TX Posts: 479	e85 is already beginning to be looked away from, e85 never even made it to my area, and a lot of people griped about it taking away from the food supply.

09-09-2012, 11:53 PM	#8
redredrage Drives: 2010 Camaro SS manual all stock Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 160	I've been using a 6gallon blend (45% ethanol) of e85 plus 89 octane (10 gal) for 20k miles with out a tune and its noticeably better for power compared to iowas 91 octane. Fwiw I'm now paying $3.3 per gal instead of $4.1 per galgal. The city economy is nearly unaffected and the highway at 68mph goes from 27.5 mpg to 25.2...... it was nearly a dollar difference before the droubt and I read a goverment report that said its cost after refining was $1.5..... I personally think ethanol and bio diesel is the future for cars, highway and off highway along with variable displacement plus forced induction 2 cycle technology.... but hey I'm just a design engineer who has seen 4 fortune 100 companies.

09-10-2012, 10:29 PM	#11
Monsterpost Banned Drives: 2010 Dodge Charger Police Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 54	I run E85 in my Lightning and I love the stuff. Of course I had to upgrade the fuel system from the pumps, lines, rails, injecters and of course a dyno tune. As stated above, 105 oct which means you can go nuts with the timing. Fuel milage does suffer some but its just a toy so I don't really care what it gets. It also runs cooler so some of the heat soak you guys are haveing e85 will help with that.

09-11-2012, 09:42 AM	#12
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	Lubricity is another factor to consider. Spill some E85 on the concrete, some 93 octane next to it. Slide your foot through each. Which one would you like your fuel pump, rings, valve stems... lubricated by. For me, not the one that my foot won't slide in. I've seen a long term fleet study of heavy use, high mileage vehicles A - B tested with E85 vs gasoline. Less ring, cyl wall, cam, valve stem... wear with gasoline. Kinda makes sense, since it's slippery and alcohol isn't. If a fuel pump is maxed out, and now using a fuel with significantly less lubricity.... I'm not thinking that is a recipe for longevity. I'd only use E85 in something designed and validated for E85, but that's just me.

09-11-2012, 12:57 PM	#14
2012ZL1 CaRaHoLiC Drives: '12 ZL1,67 Cam,68 Biscayne 427 4 sp Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,701	It does say specifically in the owners manual to not run alcohol or blended alchol gas mixtures in the ZL1. I guess if you add the correct top end lubes and add a bunch of boost and program for an alcohol burn it might be ok, but there are better ways to make more power out of this engine imho. I csn think of better ways to lose my powertrain warranty than running alcohol mix.