The Pittsburgh Thread

[PittPaz]

I've missed him since they fired him. I worked for the team when he was there. I thought he was a good coach.

[badazss]

well chris
jason get all excited when this comes up about brand loyalty

[Seer]

brand loyalty is stupid in my opinion.

I purchase what I feel is the superior product for the money. But hey it's your money.

This is in no way saying the Camaro is a bad product, but I find the die hards to be absolutely ridiculous. Just because your family is GM or Ford, doesn't mean you have to.

If your mom was a crack addict, would you be one too?

If you like the product thats one thing, but to buy it just because of the badge on the front is another.

[Kilo-9]

Well said, Steve.

I've been extremely happy with the GM products that I've owned and I don't see a reason to change. Maybe some day Ford will produce something that will blow my socks off and make me want to own it. So far, in my 37 years on this earth, that hasn't happened.

[PittPaz]

Originally Posted by Seer

brand loyalty is stupid in my opinion.

I purchase what I feel is the superior product for the money. But hey it's your money.

This is in no way saying the Camaro is a bad product, but I find the die hards to be absolutely ridiculous. Just because your family is GM or Ford, doesn't mean you have to.

If your mom was a crack addict, would you be one too?

If you like the product thats one thing, but to buy it just because of the badge on the front is another.

I didn't say I had to. I said it was nice to. The crack addict comment is just ridiculous. I also said that I happen to like the product. I thought that was pretty clear. I don't think anyone here owns a Camaro because of brand loyalty alone.

[badazss]

I own a camaro because My first car was a camaro and I wanted one sice the concept came out and like the design of its

[cam99]

Originally Posted by Seer

brand loyalty is stupid in my opinion.

I purchase what I feel is the superior product for the money. But hey it's your money.

This is in no way saying the Camaro is a bad product, but I find the die hards to be absolutely ridiculous. Just because your family is GM or Ford, doesn't mean you have to.

If your mom was a crack addict, would you be one too?

If you like the product thats one thing, but to buy it just because of the badge on the front is another.

Just devils advocate here. I'm by no means brand loyal, I've had them all, but calling the ford a superior car just because it has a forged motor is insane. It's certainly a superior motor, but so much more goes into being a superior car other than how much boost you can throw at a motor. Ask me and alot of other GT500 owners how they like the tr6060 that Ford saddled it with. They offered no solution to the god aweful WOT shifting of that transmission, at least not when I had mine. lets not get started on the MT82. How a car looks also plays a large part of buying decision. You can always forge a motor I can understand diehard brand loyalty as I know a good many people that are that way, I however buy what I like. I'd still take a ZL1 over the GT500 even knowing that the Ford would spank it down the strip, because I think it's so much a better looking feature rich car.

[MS3DALE]

Originally Posted by Kilo-9

Well said, Steve.

I've been extremely happy with the GM products that I've owned and I don't see a reason to change. Maybe some day Ford will produce something that will blow my socks off and make me want to own it. So far, in my 37 years on this earth, that hasn't happened.

('cept I've been on this earth 40 years )

[Seer]

Originally Posted by cam99

Just devils advocate here. I'm by no means brand loyal, I've had them all, but calling the ford a superior car just because it has a forged motor is insane. It's certainly a superior motor, but so much more goes into being a superior car other than how much boost you can throw at a motor. Ask me and alot of other GT500 owners how they like the tr6060 that Ford saddled it with. They offered no solution to the god aweful WOT shifting of that transmission, at least not when I had mine. lets not get started on the MT82. How a car looks also plays a large part of buying decision. You can always forge a motor I can understand diehard brand loyalty as I know a good many people that are that way, I however buy what I like. I'd still take a ZL1 over the GT500 even knowing that the Ford would spank it down the strip, because I think it's so much a better looking feature rich car.

The MT82 was far from awful, its actually a terrific transmission. Did you ever own one? I have owned two cars with them. People did not like them due to them being produced in china but designed in germany. It's manufacturing process and how the gears were built did make it a slightly noisey transmission compared to the outgoing TR3650 5spd that Ford used in the prior years Mustang. But the performance of the MT82 kicked the crap out of it.

Ask Al (Witt) how he likes his MT82, thats behind his Whipple 2.3 powered mid 11 second 2011 GT? Mine took over 75 1/4mi passes with 100-150 shots of nitrous to it, still on the stock clutch without a hint of needing serviced. Sorry man, put down the kool aid. Ya, Ford did a boo boo with the pressure plate bolts backing out, but it was covered under warranty. I remember GM having issues with power steering pumps on Camaros and GTOs for who knows how long.

The TR6060 shifting issue was not just Ford, it also saddled Viper, Challenger and Corvette owners with the same issue, so stop only telling one side of the story. It was a Tremec issue, not a Chevy, Dodge or Ford issue.

Manufacturers tend to have issues, shit happens. But to buy a car because of the badge on the front only, is stupid.

I am curious though, what are these advanced features the ZL1 has the GT500 doesn't? Because I've seen many debates and so far no one can point it out. Even big Al O himself retracted his statement.\

As far as me considering a Camaro, I most definitely would consider a 1LE, as it is the better performing vehicle in it's class (vs. Boss 302). I would not consider the ZL1, SS or V6 Camaro as they do not out perform their current Mustang counter parts. That's what I base my buying decisions off of. Maybe I'm just odd, but I like to research before I make a purchase. Probably also why I don't drink the apple kool aid either (shit I probably accidentally started another war).

[Seer]

Originally Posted by PittPaz

I didn't say I had to. I said it was nice to. The crack addict comment is just ridiculous. I also said that I happen to like the product. I thought that was pretty clear. I don't think anyone here owns a Camaro because of brand loyalty alone.

No it's not a ridiculous comment, same perspective, just because your family does it, doesn't mean you should.

As far as people who own it due to brand loyalty alone? I am sure that is and is not the case for some of the people on here.

You've known me for quite some time, and you've seen me go back and forth between Ford and GM. I'm definitely not a nut swinger one way or the other.

[PittPaz]

Originally Posted by Seer

No it's not a ridiculous comment, same perspective, just because your family does it, doesn't mean you should.

As far as people who own it due to brand loyalty alone? I am sure that is and is not the case for some of the people on here.

You've known me for quite some time, and you've seen me go back and forth between Ford and GM. I'm definitely not a nut swinger one way or the other.

Doing drugs, something harmful to your health and illegal, cannot be likened to buying a single make of car... for any reason.

You may come off as drinking the Ford Kool-Aid to some of the people in here, but I know you're not a nut swinger. I never said anything like that. You're just a happy, enthusiastic Mustang owner now... probably much like how we're happy, enthusiastic Camaro owners.

[Kilo-9]

For the record, while I'm brand loyal to GM, it's only one of many reasons why I bought the Camaro. I truly feel it's the superior product. I like the all-around package (looks, power, performance, etc). I'll reiterate that not once has a Mustang been more appealing to me than a Camaro...forged internals or not. This is the 4th Camaro I've owned and will probably not be the last. Strange how the '13 GT500 comes out and finally Ford wins the bragging rights title and now, suddenly, Camaros are, and have been, inferior for the duration of the pony car war. I have a different recollection of the history of this war, but my perception may be biased by brand loyalty-induced stupidity.

[Swacer]

Originally Posted by Kilo-9

I'll reiterate that not once has a Mustang been more appealing to me than a Camaro...forged internals or not.

+1

I never once stepped into a Ford dealership with the intention of looking at a Mustang. Sure, they can be attractive, but never did I look and say "damn I want one".

I overall feel the Camaro is a better looking car.

Now sure, I know someone will say "its because you don't mod your car that you accept an inferior product"....

But Ford could sit there going....we have forged internals!!! We can make more power than GM!! And I will have ot just respond....400hp...800hp...1200hp...no matter what your Mustang has...I still find my Camaro more attractive. Even if it is in a Mustang's back mirror lol Though, I would like to be closer to 500hp by next fall

As for brand loyalty...I have none. I loved my Honda, I like my Mazda, I really like Kayla's tC, I love my Camaro, and I appreciate my dad's F-250 diesel. If you build a decent product thats worth my money...you'll get it.

[demonspeed]

Originally Posted by Seer

brand loyalty is stupid in my opinion.

I purchase what I feel is the superior product for the money. But hey it's your money.

This is in no way saying the Camaro is a bad product, but I find the die hards to be absolutely ridiculous. Just because your family is GM or Ford, doesn't mean you have to.

If your mom was a crack addict, would you be one too?

If you like the product thats one thing, but to buy it just because of the badge on the front is another.

It's all about how much utility one finds in a vehicle vs. another. You [Jay] may weigh other things besides the brand when making a purchase. For you, it may be economics, power, design, etc., with brand being one of the lowest components on the totem pole. Nothing at all wrong with that.

For those of us who have stuck with GM (remember, I've had a Mustang and I did not think it sucked -- just wasn't "me"), we may decide to give the brand more weight ("priori weighting") when determining our vehicle (this may be or may not be mostly psychological). This may not be important to you (being that brand loyalty is "stupid"), but that's simply because you do not find as much utility in it as others. Again, nothing wrong with that.

Having a manufacturer like Chevrolet, Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. gives everyone the ability to stick with that brand because they offer something for all purposes. If one doesn't want to stick with a particular manufacturer, then there are a lot of other choices out there. Fortunately [for me], there's always been something I've been happy with at Chevrolet -- I've also had great reliability with my GM vehicles. As long as that continues to be the case, I can not foresee switching to another brand. If this makes me stupid in someone's opinion, then I'm content being stupid!