Camaro vs. Fox Body Mustang

[Stew]

Originally Posted by sschevybear11

Anyone who has to completely rebuild a fox to run 12's does not know what they are doing. Its an amazing car, I love GM cars of old, never liked fords but I love fox body's. Built 9, helped on dozens of others and know every nut and bolt. A few more of the silver notch.

Yes sir, they are not hard at all to make pretty daggone fast and certainly do not need a complete rebuild to make extremely quick. Like any car thoguh, if mods are done wrong, the parts don't work well together, they just don't work

[BlackinBlack]

Originally Posted by Stew

Yes sir, they are not hard at all to make pretty daggone fast and certainly do not need a complete rebuild to make extremely quick. Like any car thoguh, if mods are done wrong, the parts don't work well together, they just don't work

Car was trapping @ 120MPH. Street trim was with radial tires (not even drag radials). Light car with no weight in the ass can you say wheel spin? And yes it was a 94 so it was a SN95 not old fox but they were 95% the same car most of the suspension was a direct bolt on between the two. In the early to mid nineties a true 12 second car was very fast. On a drag slick it picked up over a second. Later in the life of the car it made 670 HP and ran low tens on slicks. On the same radials is had trouble to say the least.

My 93 Cobra on a good day might clip off a 13 second et. Stock these cars were nothing compared to a modern pony car.

I will agree you don't have to do a full rebuild to run twelves but I beat a ton of fox bodies with bolt ons that ran twelves till the T-5 blew up, or they broke an axle, or grenaded the bottom end of the motor. My car I drove to the track, bolted on slicks, ran, bolted on radials and drove home for years. The stock driveline did not last with 400+ HP going through it. That I learn the very expensive hard way.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

Car was trapping @ 120MPH. Street trim was with radial tires (not even drag radials). Light car with no weight in the ass can you say wheel spin? And yes it was a 94 so it was a SN95 not old fox but they were 95% the same car most of the suspension was a direct bolt on between the two. In the early to mid nineties a true 12 second car was very fast. On a drag slick it picked up over a second. Later in the life of the car it made 670 HP and ran low tens on slicks. On the same radials is had trouble to say the least.

My 93 Cobra on a good day might clip off a 13 second et. Stock these cars were nothing compared to a modern pony car.

I will agree you don't have to do a full rebuild to run twelves but I beat a ton of fox bodies with bolt ons that ran twelves till the T-5 blew up, or they broke an axle, or grenaded the bottom end of the motor. My car I drove to the track, bolted on slicks, ran, bolted on radials and drove home for years. The stock driveline did not last with 400+ HP going through it. That I learn the very expensive hard way.

They may be similar, but the 94s had a lot of extra fluff that added a lot of weight and THAT was my point. And course you are going to need traction aids with that much power.

As for the 93 Cobra, if it was hitting 13s stock i would say that is a quick time as i figured a best of low 14s would be the best they could do. NO ONE said a s stcok Fox body was going to give a new pony car with a V8 a run, it just won't, but when you mod them they get quick pretty easily.

[Bad70supreme]

Sure they get fast, takes a hole new setup though! Thats my point... take a new SS and do a few things and you have a low 12 sec car pretty easy with very little wrench time. So what car is the better platform... the one that takes mabey 2 grand and a few days in the garage to run low 12s, or the one that takes about 8 grand and a month in the garage to run low 12s? Really depends on the goal and what you do with it.

[sschevybear11]

I did buy and 89 LX hatch back 5.0 5 speed with low miles from the origianl owner, a rich lady, several years ago. It had factory gears, 2.73 and was a complete dog. I removed the air silencer, bumped the timing to 15*, installed a steeda shifter, 3.55 gears and an off road H-pipe and it was a pretty quick, torquey car but done RPM wise at 4700.

This car ran 13.3@104 on a street tire with GT40 heads, edelbrock intake, 270 comp cam, exhaust and 3.73 gears.


This one 12.8@108 on a street tire with performer heads, TFS1 cam, systemax intake, exhaust and 3.55 gears.

[BlackinBlack]

Originally Posted by Stew

They may be similar, but the 94s had a lot of extra fluff that added a lot of weight and THAT was my point. And course you are going to need traction aids with that much power.

As for the 93 Cobra, if it was hitting 13s stock i would say that is a quick time as i figured a best of low 14s would be the best they could do. NO ONE said a s stcok Fox body was going to give a new pony car with a V8 a run, it just won't, but when you mod them they get quick pretty easily.

My 94 weighed 3500 lbs with me in it. Car was caged but aluminum heads, lighter rims, and hood offset the added weight. Car was about 200 lbs heavier than a 93 and earlier GT. Notch LX cars could get real light.

My 93 Cobra ran pretty good. My wife's 92 GT was crazy fast for a mostly stock car. With axle back flowmasters, air silencer removed and a few degrees of advance it ran low 14s. Car made me mad as is was almost as fast as my Cobra.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

My 94 weighed 3500 lbs with me in it. Car was caged but aluminum heads, lighter rims, and hood offset the added weight. Car was about 200 lbs heavier than a 93 and earlier GT. Notch LX cars could get real light.

My 93 Cobra ran pretty good. My wife's 92 GT was crazy fast for a mostly stock car. With axle back flowmasters, air silencer removed and a few degrees of advance it ran low 14s. Car made me mad as is was almost as fast as my Cobra.

Yep, great thing about those cars is that they do seem to drop ET with relatively few mods. Love the 93 Cobras and Notchbacks. Seen quite a few BA Foxes in my day, some that would really lift a wheel or 2 at the track! When it comes to 80s/early 90s cars the only ones IMHO that are as easily modified is the 86-87 GN, 87 GNX, and 89 Turbo Trans Am. We did get a few good ones from the 80s

[Bad70supreme]

I like that notch back, nice car!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

Sure they get fast, takes a hole new setup though! Thats my point... take a new SS and do a few things and you have a low 12 sec car pretty easy with very little wrench time. So what car is the better platform... the one that takes mabey 2 grand and a few days in the garage to run low 12s, or the one that takes about 8 grand and a month in the garage to run low 12s? Really depends on the goal and what you do with it.

See above, minor setups in the low 13s and high 12s. No major work. And I am not putting down the SS or Camaro great cars and with safety, convienence, and comfort features the Fox bodies couldn't dream of, but it heavy, and that limits it. if you want a cheap and quick car, or the best platform for a dedicated drag car, the Fox is it Or maybe a stripped out G-Body or late 70s/early 80s malibu coupe ).

[Bad70supreme]

The only time any of these cars should be striped out is for drag use only, G bodys are pretty light as is and they are nice cars, built 4 of them personally. But like I said, it takes allot more work to run what a camaro will run with a few parts. The only easy one to run fast is the GN and GNX like you said, but for an 11 sec car your rebuilding most of the car. My car will be knocking on 11s with tires and I dont even have 2k in it. My old G and A bodys took a hell of allot more then a mild cam and a few boltons to run 11s, total engine and trans swaps is only the first part if you want them to run right! To me that dose not make the car a good platform, its only a good platform after all that work!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

The only time any of these cars should be striped out is for drag use only, G bodys are pretty light as is and they are nice cars, built 4 of them personally. But like I said, it takes allot more work to run what a camaro will run with a few parts. The only easy one to run fast is the GN and GNX like you said, but for an 11 sec car your rebuilding most of the car. My car will be knocking on 11s with tires and I dont even have 2k in it. My old G and A bodys took a hell of allot more then a mild cam and a few boltons to run 11s, total engine and trans swaps is only the first part if you want them to run right! To me that dose not make the car a good platform, its only a good platform after all that work!

Well, I am not really getting into basic mods. one thing to consider too is that you can buy one of these cheap (heck a new 5.0 used to be 10k, but nevermind that) and by the time you have a 11 second, , 10 or even quicker car, you have less than 1/2 of the purchase price of honestly even a used 5th gen (right now). Yes, they generally require different engines and transmissions, but one of those putting out the same hp/torque as a 5th get is going to be considerably quicker (in a straight line). On top of that all of the above still have huge aftermarkets to make them whatever you want them to be. It still stands their best attribute is their lightweight, and a live axle they have can also be an advantage here too, though I agree the GM 7.5 has to go from those cars first thing, of course the mustangs achiles heel is the T5, and even the new Camaros are not with chinks in the armor when lots of power is added.

[sschevybear11]

I have to agree with ease of 12's. I got 12.75@110.9 from my camaro stock, nice to silence the naysayers.

[Bad70supreme]

Originally Posted by Stew

Well, I am not really getting into basic mods. one thing to consider too is that you can buy one of these cheap (heck a new 5.0 used to be 10k, but nevermind that) and by the time you have a 11 second, , 10 or even quicker car, you have less than 1/2 of the purchase price of honestly even a used 5th gen (right now). Yes, they generally require different engines and transmissions, but one of those putting out the same hp/torque as a 5th get is going to be considerably quicker (in a straight line). On top of that all of the above still have huge aftermarkets to make them whatever you want them to be. It still stands their best attribute is their lightweight, and a live axle they have can also be an advantage here too, though I agree the GM 7.5 has to go from those cars first thing, of course the mustangs achiles heel is the T5, and even the new Camaros are not with chinks in the armor when lots of power is added.

All this is true, I agree... what I am talking about though is the man hours your putting in, the busted nuckles and trial and error! Been there done that so many times, its just a different way of doing the same thing. Right now I love how easy it is to make a modern car fast! I love old school cars and I will doing another one and hopefully soon, but mostly just to build a nice cruiser, sell and and put a little money in the camaro.

[BlackinBlack]

What I miss is the pricing of modding a 5.0 Mustang Vs a new Camaro. I had a complete built 8.8 rear (Auburn Pro , Gear, Gridle, ARP studs, 31 spline moser axles) that cost about what a set of axles for the Camaro cost. I had a custom grind cam... $200.00. Custom forged pistons cost was $800. The days of cheap mods are gone. In the latest SEMA post they had a set of forged pistons for the LSA.... $1295.00.