Hyundai/Kia caught over stating mileage

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

There is a reason the Soviets never made a good car.

Wow! How true!!!!

How are the North Korean cars stacking up nowadays? (LOL!)

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Wow! How true!!!!

How are the North Korean cars stacking up nowadays? (LOL!)

They stack up pretty well... 4 or 5 high... after the crusher is finished with them

[Number 3]

A couple of points:

Always loved Bob Lutz's anology on CAFE. "It's like trying to get a guy to lose weight by making him wear smaller size pants"

Diesels, while nice, are expensive and require you to "pee in a bottle" (DEF, which is urea, which is?.................pee). And they are harder to meet US emissions standards. I am very curious to how the 2013 Cruze diesel will sell.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by Number 3

A couple of points:

Always loved Bob Lutz's anology on CAFE. "It's like trying to get a guy to lose weight by making him wear smaller size pants"

Diesels, while nice, are expensive and require you to "pee in a bottle" (DEF, which is urea, which is?.................pee). And they are harder to meet US emissions standards. I am very curious to how the 2013 Cruze diesel will sell.

I'm in a 2010 so I haven't had to deal with DEF... yet... hoping the engineers (YOU) would figure out how to eliminate it by trade time.

Just reading some preliminary stuff on the Cruz, If Cadillac can slap around BMW with the alpha platform, maybe Cruz can whoop on VW TDI...

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Diesels, while nice, are expensive and require you to "pee in a bottle" (DEF, which is urea, which is?.................pee). And they are harder to meet US emissions standards. I am very curious to how the 2013 Cruze diesel will sell.

Diesels don't require anything, government regulations do. Diesels can run just fine, better in fact, without DEF, and have done so for almost 100 years.

Originally Posted by Mr Twisty

I'm in a 2010 so I haven't had to deal with DEF... yet... hoping the engineers (YOU) would figure out how to eliminate it by trade time.

In the case of the Cruze, you won't have to deal with it (yet...). Cars under a certain size aren't required to use it (yet...). The VW TDI cars don't have it, only the SUVs. That's part of the reason the diesel premium on a VW car is so much smaller than on a pickup.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Diesels don't require anything, government regulations do. Diesels can run just fine, better in fact, without DEF, and have done so for almost 100 years.



In the case of the Cruze, you won't have to deal with it (yet...). Cars under a certain size aren't required to use it (yet...). The VW TDI cars don't have it, only the SUVs. That's part of the reason the diesel premium on a VW car is so much smaller than on a pickup.

I'm in the class 8 stuff, so it's likely I'll be using a truck with a Foley... piss-bag... DEF tank soon unless 3 and company can find a better way.

The preliminary reports (rumors) mentioned a DEF system in the Cruz... with a large enough tank to make DEF refills the same time as the oil change.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Essentially, the meddling masterminds behind CAFE killed the BOF car and thus accidentally created the new market known as the SUV, to fill the void. One could argue that this market actually had a WORSE impact on the environment and fuel consumption than the cars which they killed.

The interesting thing was that the B-Body(Impala SS, Fleetwoods...) were dropped to increase SUV production.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Diesels don't require anything, government regulations do. Diesels can run just fine, better in fact, without DEF, and have done so for almost 100 years.

WIN!

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

The interesting thing was that the B-Body(Impala SS, Fleetwoods...) were dropped to increase SUV production.

Negative.

SUV production didn't count against CAFE limits like the B-Body DID count.

If one vehicle has a special tax on it for every one you sell and another one does not have the tax (or a much smaller one), what company would continue to make vehicles that carry that tax?

Come to think of it, this will one day apply to V8 Camaros. As of last night it's 99.99999999999999999999999999999% likely.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Negative.

SUV production didn't count against CAFE limits like the B-Body DID count.

If one vehicle has a special tax on it for every one you sell and another one does not have the tax (or a much smaller one), what company would continue to make vehicles that carry that tax?

Come to think of it, this will one day apply to V8 Camaros. As of last night it's 99.99999999999999999999999999999% likely.

No, it was for extra truck and SUV production, just a matter of moer profit at the time............. Origional EPA numbers for an LT1 B-Body were 17/26, and even 15/14 by the new standards, so Cafe was not an issue in 96.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Stew

No, it was for extra truck and SUV production, just a matter of moer profit at the time............. Origional EPA numbers for an LT1 B-Body were 17/26, and even 15/14 by the new standards, so Cafe was not an issue in 96.

I'll respond when you return to reality.

[GotGame55]

Tl:dr

I enjoy filling up my "gas guzzler." Lifes to short to worry about getting 30+ mpgs. Plus i get a wonderfull sound note from my car. Makes me smile everytime.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I'll respond when you return to reality.

Please, explain to me where I was wrong.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I'll respond when you return to reality.

Originally Posted by Stew

Please, explain to me where I was wrong.

Not agreeing you need to return to reality, but you do need to really realize reality CAFE was a huge problem back in the 90's. GM was struggling to get enough people to buy small cars then just as they are today.

Also in the end, the good old B-car sales were pretty much in the toilet. The only real volume was police cars and even that wasn't enough to keep the plant running. It did, however, spur some discussion on a private party purchase of the plant and B-car design to just build police cruisers.

Now on that note, I did see a Roadmaster wagon this past weekend with some pretty nice wheels that made me go hmmmmmmmm