Camaro 1LE vs Mustang GT track pack (Motortrend)

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by MBS

Ok But how do you Mod the overall looks of the Mustang? because the Mustang has never been the ponycar of choice in that department, When i see one I

Sorry, but I'm way too much of a "function over form" guy and I actually prefer a "sleeper" look.

I know there's a huge aftermarket in body panels and other appearance add-ons for Mustangs, but it all looks overdone to me. From there, all I'd ever be able to do would be to find new ways to screw it up even worse.


Norm

[MBS]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

Looks are completely subjective. Want proof? I think the V6 front end is missing something and makes the Camaro look less aggressive compared to the SS and ZL1. Same for the pre-13 Mustangs. The GT and GT500 look 1000x better than their V6 counterparts.

It's all personal though lots of people hate the mail slot...

Yes the GT500 looks much better , Your proof is all subjective , Proof is not saying "I THINK" Think means what you think , There is no proof in think . Lets be honest here the Camaro has that extra weight because it is a bigger car that has a better look/style Which is why I THINK and others think the Camaro has a meaner look and much nicer body style , Now if all mustangs looked like the GT500 that would be different. You would be close , but not quite there . In fact i "think the Challenger is also meaner looking than most Mustangs , In that dept your in last place .

[MBS]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Sorry, but I'm way too much of a "function over form" guy and I actually prefer a "sleeper" look.

I know there's a huge aftermarket in body panels and other appearance add-ons for Mustangs, but it all looks overdone to me. From there, all I'd ever be able to do would be to find new ways to screw it up even worse.


Norm

Thats why they make them a different, colors style etc. To each their own. One thing for sure is we win as consumers, This war going on in Detroit is Awesome and one hell of a great time to buy a car. Just look at the power in todays cars compared to just a decade ago , In fact look at how much power changes it seems every single year, Detroit Rocks and as long as they keep doing what they are doing they will put these Overseas companys to shame . They are already a much better value IMO:5thgenvert:

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Go back to the model year 2010 - 2011 time frame.

I have zero interest in putting any year Camaro down, but I will back up what I posted above. Two items clipped from different sources ought to be enough, and I wasn't even looking hard.

Example 1: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-gt-50-page-3

Example 2: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Yes, this one pits a 2011 Mustang against 2010's, but mostly that just brings the Mustang up to the low 400's HP party. That time, MT wasn't even letting price differences get in the way of matching these three up.

The 1LE really, REALLY needed to fix that ↑↑↑ , no?

Norm

If we're cherry-picking magazine reviews, perhaps we should talk about the straight-line performance advantage of the SS over the GT...

Motor Trend: GT 12.7 sec @ 111.3 mph, SS 13.1 sec @ 110.8 mph
Car and Driver: GT 13.2 sec @ 109 mph, SS 13.0 sec @ 111 mph
Road & Track: GT 13.2 sec @ 109.3 mph, SS 13.0 sec @ 110.7 mph (0-120 mph: GT 16.4 sec, SS 15.4 sec), Willow Springs Lap: GT 1:37.6, SS 1:37.7)
Inside Line: GT 13.3 sec @ 107.3 mph, SS 13.1 sec @ 110.4 mph

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by MBS

Yes the GT500 looks much better , Your proof is all subjective , Proof is not saying "I THINK" Think means what you think , There is no proof in think . Lets be honest here the Camaro has that extra weight because it is a bigger car that has a better look/style Which is why I THINK and others think the Camaro has a meaner look and much nicer body style , Now if all mustangs looked like the GT500 that would be different. You would be close , but not quite there . In fact i "think the Challenger is also meaner looking than most Mustangs , In that dept your in last place .

the Camaro isn't heavy specifically because of its styling. It's because it's on a SEDAN Platform. Also THINK means exactly what I posted.

The statement: "The V6 Camaro looks weak in my opinion compared to the SS and ZL1." Is not a fact it is a personal opinion and since I think one way and you think another then it can be concluded that our opinions are subjective to our own tastes, personal feelings and opinions.

Also if you had have read that properly you would have understood that everything posted was opinion NOT fact..

[MBS]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

Looks are completely subjective. Want proof? I think the V6 front end is missing something and makes the Camaro look less aggressive compared to the SS and ZL1. Same for the pre-13 Mustangs. The GT and GT500 look 1000x better than their V6 counterparts.

It's all personal though lots of people hate the mail slot...

Oh i read it right . what do your 5th and 6th words say??? And i quote . "Want Proof?"

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by MBS

Oh i read it right . what do your 5th and 6th words say??? And i quote . "Want Proof?"

sub·jec·tive
/səbˈjektiv/
Adjective
Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

proof
/pro͞of/
Noun
Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

think
/THiNGk/
Verb
Have a particular opinion, belief, or idea about someone or something: "she thought that nothing would be the same again".

Therefore it is a subjective statement that "The V6 Camaro in my opinion looks weak compared to the SS and ZL1."

It is a fact that "I think the V6 front end is missing something and makes the Camaro look less aggressive compared to the SS and ZL1."

"The GT and GT500 look 1000x better than their V6 counterparts."

Those are my subjective opinions, it is a fact that I feel that way and I can prove that I feel that way. Your differing opinion on the matter makes my statement objective, because it's the way I feel about the matter not a matter we agree on.

Furthermore: If person A believes that a banana is better than a pineapple and person B believes the opposite, neither of them are completely factual statements they are subjective.

Even Furthermore:

There was no need for me to write all the above since subjective, by definition, is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. That is all the proof I need...

[shrinkdoc]

Camaros dont look good with black hoods.

[Fiveg56]

Originally Posted by shrinkdoc

Camaros dont look good with black hoods.

Well you can't have glare off the hood on the race track.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

If we're cherry-picking magazine reviews, perhaps we should talk about the straight-line performance advantage of the SS over the GT...

I wasn't "cherry picking" anything. I was concerned only with handling, and I knew that I'd seen enough reviews for the early consensus on handling being given to the Mustang.

But I'm game.

I have no problem with the Camaro coming out on top in some of the acceleration tests. For sure, I have less problem with that than some (many?) others have with the stick-axle Mustang winning a few cornering and handling comparisons.

And like I said before, the 1LE had to clearly top the Mustang's handling this time around or be held back until it could.

It really doesn't bother me that it did, and did so in such a convincing manner. If anything, the 1LE is the new handling overdog where Ford clearly didn't bring enough to the table . . . pretty much like the GT500 is the current dragstrip overdog vs the close-but-no-guitar ZL1.


Norm

[ThaCamaroKid]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Go back to the model year 2010 - 2011 time frame.

I have zero interest in putting any year Camaro down, but I will back up what I posted above. Two items clipped from different sources ought to be enough, and I wasn't even looking hard.

Example 1: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-gt-50-page-3



Example 2: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Yes, this one pits a 2011 Mustang against 2010's, but mostly that just brings the Mustang up to the low 400's HP party. That time, MT wasn't even letting price differences get in the way of matching these three up.




The 1LE really, REALLY needed to fix that ↑↑↑ , no?


Norm

Okay so perhaps the 2011 5.0 has a slight edge on the 2010 SS, On Willow its faster by .1 seconds, So Im still sticking with what I said they are both just about equal in every way and the Camaro is less powerful and heavier, Though Ford says the 5.0 makes 415 HP or w/e they claim consistent dyno's have shown it makes more around 435. However a .1 second slower on a 1:37 timed lap at willow still doesnt explain how the 2012 Boss 302 LS is 3 whole seconds slower around willow than the 2012 1LE. When the 1LE is a add on package to a standard SS and not a significantly different car like the 302 LS and the 5.0. Also the price differences, 37k 1LE vs 47k 302 LS...

I'm sorry I just think that pretty much proves the amount of difference there really is, you can maintain the SS is worse than the 5.0 I'll respect that but I think that shows how much potential the SS is not using. And that the 1LE is just a better car than the 302. But to each their own.

[ThaCamaroKid]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

I apologize the way you had bolded it made me think it was your words.

As per what I said about the Jeep: I was comparing body roll. The Camaro has a retarded amount of body roll stock. Where as the 1LE and ZL1 solve this problem.

Obviously the GT500 isn't built for handling as its main objective but it absolutely does handle, obviously not as well as a Boss or ZL1 but it does have better handling and grip than a non 1LE SS. I drive my GT500 as a daily driver and have complaints about comfort over pot holes, neither car is particularly stellar over pot holes. In my opinion that is. Neither car is more or less comfortable than the other. I would much prefer the stiffer 1LE over both.

Glad we got that cleared up haha, I had it bolded to emphasize what i was responding to, those were not my words haha, for some reason it removed the "quote" box I guess I messed something up

Also that is my main point about the 1LE, the 1LE is a 'package' to the SS, where as a 302 and 302 LS are significantly different and more expensive cars, this to me, shows how much potential the SS really has, where as the 5.0 I don't see it. ( atleast not in the same price range )

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by ThaCamaroKid

Glad we got that cleared up haha, I had it bolded to emphasize what i was responding to, those were not my words haha, for some reason it removed the "quote" box I guess I messed something up

Also that is my main point about the 1LE, the 1LE is a 'package' to the SS, where as a 302 and 302 LS are significantly different and more expensive cars, this to me, shows how much potential the SS really has, where as the 5.0 I don't see it. ( atleast not in the same price range )

The 5.0 and Boss Handle Remarkably, the Mustangs downfall is its live axle for sure. Ford would need to at a Watts Link to improve the current design. I'm excited for the coming years...

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by ThaCamaroKid

I think that shows how much potential the SS is not using.

It does all come down to this ↑↑↑, does it not?

What any given platform is ultimately capable of and what any given production version of it actually manages to do really are two different things. The SS left a lot on the table, possibly due to GM/Chevy conservatism.


Norm