12 SS vs 12 5.0

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by wnt2gofst

Every one does you retard. Only some one like you wouldn't consider it a bolt on. Hell even every other site including LS1tech/Corvette forums/G8 forums consider it a bolt on. There is no tearing the engine apart for the stall. Hell there was no tearing the engine apart for my blower. But as said blower is not a bolt on. But I guess it could be a bolt on if was just doing a stock blower swap for another. Even tat is pushing it. But sorry your failing and have to rule out a stall cause your retarded. Let me guess you consider a clutch ok though? And just like gears youch oil they are still a bolt on.

I guess it's up for interpretation, but I sure don't consider a stall to be a bolt on. Anything I can't easily install myself and requires me to disconnect the transmission from the engine isn't a "bolt on".

In my opinion, the connotation of "bolt on" has more to do with the ease with which it can be installed by a shadetree mechanic like myself than it does the physical structure of the bolt on. A CAI, headers, intake manifold, cat back exhaust, pulleys, etc. - those are all bolt ons. A supercharger is not a bolt on. A TC, that requires you to crack open the transmission to get at is not a bolt on. Gears, likewise, which take hours to install and are a PITA, are not bolt ons.

[wnt2gofst]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

I guess it's up for interpretation, but I sure don't consider a stall to be a bolt on. Anything I can't easily install myself and requires me to disconnect the transmission from the engine isn't a "bolt on".

In my opinion, the connotation of "bolt on" has more to do with the ease with which it can be installed by a shadetree mechanic like myself than it does the physical structure of the bolt on. A CAI, headers, intake manifold, cat back exhaust, pulleys, etc. - those are all bolt ons. A supercharger is not a bolt on. A TC, that requires you to crack open the transmission to get at is not a bolt on. Gears, likewise, which take hours to install and are a PITA, are not bolt ons.

In every car scene GM/Ford/ etc they consider stall bolt on. Look at the bolt on list here. Stall/gears are in the bolt on list. So even your own 5th gen camaro users consider stall/gear bolt ons. Nice try though.

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[PQ]

If I owned this site I'd change your name to 'Professor'

lmao

[debro7046]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

If he was only doing 113mph traps in negative DA with 429RWHP then he needs some serious help shifting and launching. I don't know about other cars but when I blow my launch and get a 2.0+ 60ft my trap is always 2mph+ slower than when I nail my launch and get a 1.8 60ft or better. I have a auto car but I would imagine that a certain shifting technique could also play a huge role in trap speed as well as DA. If he is short shifting and doing it slowly I would imagine it would for sure hurt trap speed as well as ET. Sounds like he just needs more practice or a different driver. I would really encourage some drag radials as well with that much power otherwise it may not do much good.

This could be true. OP could benefit from a driver mod. I mean, on the street he seems to shift fine from what I can tell being in the car with him. He says at the track he shifts at red line which i think is 6200 rpm and tries to nail his shifts as fast as possible. Idk maybe the dyno he uses is a little happy.

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by wnt2gofst

In every car scene GM/Ford/ etc they consider stall bolt on. Look at the bolt on list here. Stall/gears are in the bolt on list. So even your own 5th gen camaro users consider stall/gear bolt ons. Nice try though.

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So you found one list on one corner of the internet, and now all of the sudden it's the gospel truth and a proven fact? Do you believe everything you read on the internet, too? Nice try, bro. Stick to fixing industrial machinery for a living, forming cogent, logical arguments isn't your forte.

Like I said, it's a really a matter of opinion and how you interpret the definition. There is no hard and fast definition of bolt on. I don't consider a TC to be a bolt on and neither do many people here and that's my *opinion*.

And since we're quoting meaningless forum drivel as if it proves anything, the concensus among the Corvette guys for the most part is that a tq converter isn't a bolt on....

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...bolt-on-4.html

[ehab]

I'm not the greatest driver. But I'm certainly learning and improving. On my first time to the track last year I couldn't cut any better than 2.4 60 ft. Or run anything close to what my car was suppose to be running. Last time I went to the track I was able to cut 2.1's 60 ft consistently. Hopefully soon enough I'll b cutting 1.9's 2.0's 60 ft. I don't slip the clutch, I simply try to do it by just dumping it. I don't wanna ruin my clutch. But If that's my last option to cut a great 60 ft. Then be it. Dropped off my car today, and should have it by tomorrow. I'll post my dyno numbers as soon as I find out, and I'll post by times and traps as soon as I hit the track. I appreciate Every one's support and advices.

[wnt2gofst]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

So you found one list on one corner of the internet, and now all of the sudden it's the gospel truth and a proven fact? Do you believe everything you read on the internet, too? Nice try, bro. Stick to fixing industrial machinery for a living, forming cogent, logical arguments isn't your forte.

Like I said, it's a really a matter of opinion and how you interpret the definition. There is no hard and fast definition of bolt on. I don't consider a TC to be a bolt on and neither do many people here and that's my *opinion*.

And since we're quoting meaningless forum drivel as if it proves anything, the concensus among the Corvette guys for the most part is that a tq converter isn't a bolt on....

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...bolt-on-4.html

Yet there bolt on list includes convertors. Same with every bolt on list on every forum. Even your own camaro/GM owners.

Do you consider a clutch a bolt on?

So again you fail.

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[wnt2gofst]

Originally Posted by ehab

I'm not the greatest driver. But I'm certainly learning and improving. On my first time to the track last year I couldn't cut any better than 2.4 60 ft. Or run anything close to what my car was suppose to be running. Last time I went to the track I was able to cut 2.1's 60 ft consistently. Hopefully soon enough I'll b cutting 1.9's 2.0's 60 ft. I don't slip the clutch, I simply try to do it by just dumping it. I don't wanna ruin my clutch. But If that's my last option to cut a great 60 ft. Then be it. Dropped off my car today, and should have it by tomorrow. I'll post my dyno numbers as soon as I find out, and I'll post by times and traps as soon as I hit the track. I appreciate Every one's support and advices.

Dumping it you'll need better tires period. Some good drag radials will improve your 60ft by .3-.5 depending on track prep and launch rpm.

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[PQ]

I specified my opinion on the bolt on situation. To try and say it as gospel is ignorant. Like the 'Muscle car, Pony car' argument. Or the 'Sports car, Muscle car' argument.

With my dad it was fluid. If you have to do fluid it's not a bolt on. HIS definition.

I don't give a shit. It's all subjective. The power adder is the same thing. Why is a CAI not a power adder if it adds power? A cam is a power adder but it doesn't blow more air in. It manupulates the valve timing for air efficiency in a cycle. The result, like the CAI, is added power.

A torque converter does not add ANY power. Just allows the existing power to be used better.

[debro7046]

Originally Posted by wnt2gofst

Yet there bolt on list includes convertors. Same with every bolt on list on every forum. Even your own camaro/GM owners.

Do you consider a clutch a bolt on?

So again you fail.

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I hate to say this but Point well made. It does seem that converters are considered and excepted as a bolt on modification. With that being said you are kind of a douchebag dude. You to seem to have a wealth of knowledge that I'm sure can help many people. Its unfortunate that how you chose to express that intellect is by putting down others. Isn't the point a gaining knowledge to teach others? Your on a camaro forum talking shit about camaro's. Do you except anyone to take you serious or really listen to what you have to say when all your doing is bashing them. You have to take a step back and find a better way to communicate your opinions and arguments.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by debro7046

I hate to say this but Point well made. It does seem that converters are considered and excepted as a bolt on modification. With that being said you are kind of a douchebag dude. You to seem to have a wealth of knowledge that I'm sure can help many people. Its unfortunate that how you chose to express that intellect is by putting down others. Isn't the point a gaining knowledge to teach others? Your on a camaro forum talking shit about camaro's. Do you except anyone to take you serious or really listen to what you have to say when all your doing is bashing them. You have to take a step back and find a better way to communicate your opinions and arguments.

Admitedly, I baited him into that argument. I personally feel the way I described. I've seen the categories and don't argue them. I wanted to clarify due to his claim of 10 second bolt ons.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by wnt2gofst

Dumping it you'll need better tires period. Some good drag radials will improve your 60ft by .3-.5 depending on track prep and launch rpm.

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I agree and it will most likely improve his mph as well. I dont have a manual but I think they need to be shifted at about 6400-6500RPM as well for best results probably more after the cam. Also the 700dollar DR's are a minor expense considering what the OP's other mods cost and they can provide a significant improvement.

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by wnt2gofst

Yet there bolt on list includes convertors. Same with every bolt on list on every forum. Even your own camaro/GM owners.

Let's get something straight first, I don't own a Camaro or a GM product, so quit pretending that I should care what someone here thinks is a bolt on or not on some fast times list. That means absolutely nothing to me.

What don't you understand about the term "subjective"? Do you even know what "subjective' means? It means the definition of the term "bolt on" is relative to the person articulating it.

Some people consider TCs to be bolt ons, some people don't. Obviously a lot of people over on that Corvette forum don't consider it to be a bolt on, which was the point I was trying to get across.

You're quoting Camaro5, I'm quoting the opinions of Corvette owners - neither one of us is right and neither one of us is wrong. Because, and I'll say this very slowly since your reading comprehension obviously lacks bro, *THERE IS NO STANDARD DEFINITION OF BOLT ON*. It's ultimately someone's god damn opinion and that's exactly what we're arguing here, your opinion vs mine.

So again you fail.

Says the guy making $30k/yr to fix machinery for a living. Ok, buddy. Now, run along now and let the adults talk. Thanks.

[wnt2gofst]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

Let's get something straight first, I don't own a Camaro or a GM product, so quit pretending that I should care what someone here thinks is a bolt on or not on some fast times list. That means absolutely nothing to me.

What don't you understand about the term "subjective"? Do you even know what "subjective' means? It means the definition of the term "bolt on" is relative to the person articulating it.

Some people consider TCs to be bolt ons, some people don't. Obviously a lot of people over on that Corvette forum don't consider it to be a bolt on, which was the point I was trying to get across.

You're quoting Camaro5, I'm quoting the opinions of Corvette owners - neither one of us is right and neither one of us is wrong. Because, and I'll say this very slowly since your reading comprehension obviously lacks bro, *THERE IS NO STANDARD DEFINITION OF BOLT ON*. It's ultimately someone's god damn opinion and that's exactly what we're arguing here, your opinion vs mine.



Says the guy making $30k/yr to fix machinery for a living. Ok, buddy. Now, run along now and let the adults talk. Thanks.

Who makes 30k? Would you like to see what I make. I make almost double that actually. Not counting what my wife makes.

And looks like your getting your panties in a bunch. Step back take **** out your ass and chill. 99% of all racers consider a TC a bolt on. Look at the fastest list everywhere. Its under bolt ons. And most actually do have a standard for bolt ons. No going inside the egnine, no power adder. Pretty simple.

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