Chicago Tribune: Don't pin the blame on GM for dealer's greed

[electlatino]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

come on guys its supply and demand...if people are willing to pay for it...then well you can't knock the dealer for getting a true market price

the market is the market...get over it and just wait or cough up the money if you want it now

there is a cost to being the first to have something deal with it

this is true, but not what i think people are upset about. if a dealer gets a car, and wants to charge over msrp, that's his or her right. let them.

i think what people are pissed about, and rightfully should expect GM to do something about and fix, is when a dealer promises one price (msrp), and then when the car is about to show up, try to back out of the deal, and say the customer should pay more now. that's not right. it needs to stop, and GM rightly should be blamed for not controlling illegitimate business practices.

once the dealer agrees to a price, whether in writing or not, they should complete the deal at that price.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by mikenmar

What do tort plaintiffs have to do with franchise laws??

You must have not read this post I made in response to yours then.

Originally Posted by Supermans

Hundreds of plaintiffs have pending lawsuits against old GM that are worth nearly $2 billion. They blame automotive defaults for their injuries, which in many cases are severe and crippling. All of those have been thrown out when the bankruptcy occurred as part of negotiations. Current and future cases. If you're a lawyer you must know this. Or did you miss the memo? The plaintiffs are considered unsecured creditors in the bankruptcies.

If the Government has literally done away with all potential court cases against them. What makes you think the Government has not done away with the ability for the dealers to sue as well for breaking old franchise laws which were contracts under old GM?

If written in the bankruptcy terms was the ability for the Government to shed all past, current and future blame on accidents caused by GM vehicle failure.... What makes you think the Government has to follow franchise laws anymore which allow the dealers to screw with customers and "old GM" has to look the other way?

[songsj]

I do not think the bankruptcy Court or appointed Trustee can simply throw out a lawsuit. I beleive the Plaintiff in an unliquidated damages case, such as a products liability case, simply becomes an unsecured creditor after obtaining a judgment, or, as I have done in the past when a Defendant I have sued on a case files for bankruptcy, you do not violate the automatic stay pursuant to the Bankruptcy code and you simply 1. wait for the stay to be lifted afer the bankuptcy is over and poceed with your suit or 2. file a motion to have the stay lifted to proceed with your suit which will typically 100% be granted if you can show the Court that there is sufficient insurance to cover the claim.

I'm no lawyer but I did hear on CNBC yesterday that all current lawsuits and litigation claims will fall under the old GM and plaintiffs will be screwed. The bankruptcy judge and GM did agree that all FUTURE claims will be honored by the new GM. I assume they will use the date of filing for bankruptcy to determine past and future claims.

Smoke and mirrors, Saturn had a single no haggle price on all their cars. That wasn't price fixing. What is going on out there to people who have pre-orderd their cars is bullshit plain and simple. Whoever wrote this artilcle is talking out their dimestore lawyer arse!!! There always is a way!!!

[songsj]

there is a cost to being the first to have something deal with it

You are so right and in this case if you pre-ordered a Camaro and were promised MSRP.
That should be the price you pay. Anything over that is BS

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by songsj

You are so right and in this case if you pre-ordered a Camaro and were promised MSRP.
That should be the price you pay. Anything over that is BS

It is ridiculous that we have people in this forum bending over backwards to defend the dealers who screw with their customers.

[Koolwip]

Interesting info on the lawsuits. Amazing. I did some research of my own after reading your post.

All pending claims against GM are relegated to the trash bin after
reorganization according to the plan which is set to be finalized Tuesday, June 30. Very little chance that this will not occur.

However, unlike the Chrysler bankruptcy, GM would be liable for "new"
claims arising from vehicles it previously sold.

If you have a claim that relates to the failure of a component for which
the supplier has a lot of design discretion, you can salvage pending claims
by joining the supplier. The same goes for a mismanufactured component.
Also, the dealer is liable when the manufacturer is insolvent --- and it is
also argued that franchise dealers are responsible anyway.

Now, to the real important stuff - "Dude, where's my car?!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Koolwip

Interesting info on the lawsuits. Amazing. I did some research of my own after reading your post.

All pending claims against GM are relegated to the trash bin after
reorganization according to the plan which is set to be finalized Tuesday, June 30. Very little chance that this will not occur.

However, unlike the Chrysler bankruptcy, GM would be liable for "new"
claims arising from vehicles it previously sold.

If you have a claim that relates to the failure of a component for which
the supplier has a lot of design discretion, you can salvage pending claims
by joining the supplier. The same goes for a mismanufactured component.
Also, the dealer is liable when the manufacturer is insolvent --- and it is
also argued that franchise dealers are responsible anyway.

Now, to the real important stuff - "Dude, where's my car?!!!!!!!!!!!"

The Government is saving over 2 billion dollars in claim money by doing this travesty on all current claims that have occurred from injury or death as a result of malfunctions that should not have occurred within GM vehicles. We'll have to read up on whether or not there will be a cap on the winnings of any new court cases as well against the Government for new cases. Ultimately we have to see if this bankruptcy has any affect (changes, etc.) on current franchise laws with the dealers since the Government was able to force closings of dealerships already.. It will be an interesting couple months to say the least..

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Supermans

It is ridiculous that we have people in this forum bending over backwards to defend the dealers who screw with their customers.

I don't think everyone is defending the dealers, most are saying it's out of GM hands they can't do anything about it. The law is the law and while some here think that GM should have to hold the dealers to their word, thats just not their place to do that. That's stepping over the lines of law and that could kick them in their asses.

One poster keeps going off about GM being able to strip dealers of their dealership but having no power to control the dealers as BS. The thing he is missing is GM has the power to do business with whom they want to and that's what the dealerships are to GM is customers. Even then it's not as simple as taking away or not renewing the contract because most dealers are appealing to the courts to stop this. So once again it's more of people defending GM and placing the blame were it needs to be and that is on the dealers as you have said.

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Supermans

You must have not read this post I made in response to yours then.



If written in the bankruptcy terms was the ability for the Government to shed all past, current and future blame on accidents caused by GM vehicle failure.... What makes you think the Government has to follow franchise laws anymore which allow the dealers to screw with customers and "old GM" has to look the other way?

Their not, you're missing the point all claims will be filed under against the old GM. Those assets under the old GM will be liquated and sold off and whatever money made off of those assets will more then likely be used to settle the cases or be there to pay the cases if they wind up going the distance. So what you must understand is that the old GM assets are worth a lot and money and proceeds will pay for certain things so everything is not just dropped as you seem to think. I know you reading things and only thinking on what you read but you must understand how things like this work, it's not Black and White it's very grey and you need to understand how to read between the lines to fully understand what is happening.

You are getting all fired up and really don't understand the full circumstances of what is happening. Remember everything you read isn't final and isn't cannon enough to know exactly what will happen.

[diddiyo]

Yes I do blame GM. The dealers represent GM and sell GM products. I think it's GM's responsibility to check on their dealers.

And I think I read somewhere they're actually looking into it during the restructuring process.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by diddiyo

Yes I do blame GM. The dealers represent GM and sell GM products. I think it's GM's responsibility to check on their dealers.

And I think I read somewhere they're actually looking into it during the restructuring process.

Anything less would be undignified..

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by ssump29

Their not, you're missing the point all claims will be filed under against the old GM. Those assets under the old GM will be liquated and sold off and whatever money made off of those assets will more then likely be used to settle the cases or be there to pay the cases if they wind up going the distance. So what you must understand is that the old GM assets are worth a lot and money and proceeds will pay for certain things so everything is not just dropped as you seem to think. I know you reading things and only thinking on what you read but you must understand how things like this work, it's not Black and White it's very grey and you need to understand how to read between the lines to fully understand what is happening.

You are getting all fired up and really don't understand the full circumstances of what is happening. Remember everything you read isn't final and isn't cannon enough to know exactly what will happen.

GM assets sold off and liquidated? Are you kidding. The Government took over everything, nothing has been liquidated.. They got rid of a bunch of dealers and to my knowledge all cases against "old GM" will be thrown out in court since no money is tied to "old GM" anymore after they finalize the bankruptcy...

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Supermans

GM assets sold off and liquidated? Are you kidding. The Government took over everything, nothing has been liquidated.. They got rid of a bunch of dealers and to my knowledge all cases against "old GM" will be thrown out in court since no money is tied to "old GM" anymore after they finalize the bankruptcy...

No I'm not kidding. Old GM is being sold off as we spoke. They have sold Saab, Opel, Hummer and I believe they have a buyer for Saturn. What are you talking about. That's what the restructure is, getting rid of the non-profittable assets (hence liquadting those assets) try and keep up thats a known fact. The old GM is set to be killed, so they are selling what they can to get something out of it. Selling brands, plants and whatever they aren't going to be using. So please read more carefully and stop using emotions and realize what has been done to this point because they have been selling assets left and right. Do you even know what liquadting means?

[camero]

This thread really shows how conflicted people are about capitalism. Some dealer makes an extra profit on a hot product and everyone calls for the government to help them enforce price-fixing. Geez. People that say they "had a deal" to buy at MSRP need to hear the basic theory of contract law: all contracts can be broken. You really don't want the government or GM to jump in and make sure they can't unless you're willing to let the govt tell you what to do with your business dealings. And dealers of all brands add markups on hot products.

Sure, nobody wants to pay extra but you have to think about the implications of what you're saying. Using the word "greed" is really deceptive. Capitalism is based on maximizing profits, not your idea of reasonable profits. Or the governments idea of reasonable profits. Or GM's idea of reasonable profits. I'm not defending dealers or GM, I'm defending the free market system. Do you want a free market or don't you.