Brake pads for the Road Course - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

TBone · 03-31-2013, 10:52 PM

Let's talk Brake Pads.

For those of us that attend track events on Road Courses what kind of brake pads are you using and what kind of wear are you seeing. Share with us all of the brands you have tried and your experiences with them. It would help if you could tell us what kind of rotors you are using as well.

The reason I bring this up is the pads I used last year are not up to the increased speeds , apparently, I am capable of this season. Last year I ran Carbotech XP-12 on the front and XP-8 on the rear. It took all year to use up the fronts at Autobahn and Road America. The rears, I have over half of the pads left to use this year.

So last Friday I went to my home track, Autobahn in Joliet, IL., and ran the Full Track and proceeded to burn through the set of pads I had budgeted for the season, XP-12's in one day. OOOpps. Granted it was fun and I was faster than last year but now I need to find some new pads for the season.

I do like the CT's for their initial bite and solid pedal. They are not too grabby. Plus there stopping power is phenomenal and consistent. We all know hauling down are fat pigs is no easy task. The CT's are nice and predictable and really gave me confidence.

It has been recommended that I try the XP-20's. One of my coach's also suggested the Hawk DCT60's but mentioned that they are harder on rotors than the Carbotechs. I have an aversion to the Hawk's after a bad experience so I am leery of that brand.

I am running the DBA 4000 slotted rotors all around.

So these are my experiences, what are yours?

T.

bannonm · 04-01-2013, 08:49 AM

T, what speeds are you hitting on the back straight coming from the south track? Sounds like you're flying. From what I've read on the CT pads you recommended last year, they wear faster because they are easier on rotors. Hawks make lots of dust and it's nasty on the wheels. They also have a tendency to work better after they warm up. It's going to be a trade off, wear out pads or wear out rotors.

Perhaps with you're engine it's time to upgrade those front brakes to 6 pot. Bigger pad has more surface to dissipate the heat. Or add some brake ducts or remove the dust shields and either trim them or use the half shield from the ZL1. I trimmed mine and added ducts. Anxious to see how they work next month on the north track. I don't have that speed "problem" you have right now, so I'm getting away with HP+ pads. Been thinking about camming so CTS-V calipers may be going on as well.

1977and2010 · 04-01-2013, 12:35 PM

There are a lot of things to consider. Some tracks are harder than others on brakes, wheels and tires. Time of year makes a difference, summer is obviously harder on brakes. How familiar a driver is with a track and how aggressive they are to name a few.

I started with Hawk HPS pads. I think I did 5 full days on those pads. 3 at sebring, 1 at roebling road, and 1 at pbir. I did a lot of passing and also got passed. When I wore the fronts out I still had about 1/3 to 1/2 left out back. After that I put the DTC 30 up front same HPS in rear. Next time out I had completed many more mods and was much more comfortable on Sebring. I warped the rotors and glazed the pads in the second session. Last fall I upgraded the fronts to the cts-v setup with DTC-30 with cooling ducts and hp+ in the rear. In December at daytona they worked great. But that's a different track with lots of high speed straights for time to cool the brakes. The real test will be in 2 weeks when I go back to Sebring. Can't wait.

I couldn't believe the size difference between the stock pads and the cts-v pads. The cts-v pad is so much bigger. Which should help with braking and pad longevity.

Also the DTC-30 dust and squeak pretty bad, that I can live with. The pita is they are grabby and get into the abs pretty easily when cold on the street.

Rob@WretchedMS · 04-01-2013, 01:17 PM

Carbotech's are good, as well as Cobalt Friction, and the Hawk Race pads.

All of them are hard on the rotors, but you will likely be replacing the rotors due to heat issues before wear issues.

I've stopped carrying Carbotech, but can help with Cobalt Friction and Hawk if you are looking, let me know.

jeremywes · 04-01-2013, 02:02 PM

Still trying to go thru my factory set but I think next weekend will be their end

Synner · 04-01-2013, 02:17 PM

Currently Hawk DTC-30 on CTSV calipers up front with ZL1 rotors and HP+ in the rear on stock rotors. They are definitely murdering the wheel finish, embedded in the clear coat up front. They work good getting me down from 140ish mph but I would like something that won't destroy wheels before I get my forgelines. I haven't had any fade issues even though I know the HP+ isn't ideal from a temp range standpoint, but in the rear they've done ok on street tires. That may change when I get my square 305 setup,

I should probably switch to 2 different sets to reduce wear and dust but I'm lazy. I will run these until they die and then try something else.

Synner · 04-01-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1977and2010

I couldn't believe the size difference between the stock pads and the cts-v pads. The cts-v pad is so much bigger. Which should help with braking and pad longevity.

When I measured it out there was about a 57% size increase.

Lined up edge to edge

TBone · 04-01-2013, 08:37 PM

Bannon,

I have some video up of an early session you can check out.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286574

I can't say I remember but north of 100 mph.

All,

I have been considering brake ducts, especially if I can talk bannon into helping me out, to help keep them cooler. But when I was there on Friday the outside temps were 50F tops. So they should have been cooler than running in the summer.

As far as bigger pots, sure the pads are larger but the stock pots are stopping me now. I am getting into the ABS when I brake so I am not sure the extra coin spent there would be worth it. My coach races a Mustang and he has kept the stock pots just runs DCT-60's and runs endurance races, scca races and coaching over several weekends all on the same set of pads. His rotors look like crap but still has pads left so I guess it is a trade off with the Hawks.

Does anyone use different brands at each end?

As far as stock, HPS', or HP+ pads, well I am soooooooo far past those. Hell, I run HPS on my rears for the street with Carbotech Bobcats in the front ONLY because race pads squeal on the street or I would run them.

Rob,
I did not see those pads on your website. Do I need to call you for info on those?

BTW, where is Norm, Cornerspeed and everyone else that track their cars?

Oh, this event defiantly sold me on a harness bar and a 4 point harness. Both of the Mustangs mentioned in my other thread had them, loved them and they really kept them planted they said. I need to get the name of CornerSpeed's guy at speedware.

T.

Rob@WretchedMS · 04-01-2013, 08:54 PM

send me an email
rob@wretchedms.com

i have them off the site right now,
Just let me know what ones you are looking for in the email

Also, do you have pictures of the harness bar for the Camaro?

Synner · 04-01-2013, 09:32 PM

This is the only one I know of. Although their seat base plates seems expensive for what you get, I could build them from 1/4" steel without much effort.
http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/...ro-harness-bar

I do like Blu808's roll bar with the removable crossbar. Unobtrusive and a bit more safety without losing the rear seat. Just not good for dual duty drag racing.

Synner · 04-01-2013, 09:34 PM

And I would add that bigger brakes doesn't always mean more aggressive braking. You could use a pad thats a step down in aggressiveness and have equal stopping power with better thermal management and hopefully longer rotor life.

I would definitely go the brake duct route if you choose to stay with the stock setup. Keeping the heat down should help things last a bit longer since you're working them fairly hard. We have a few hundred more pounds to stop than the mustang.

ICTsccaCamaro · 04-01-2013, 09:50 PM

Are you guys resurfacing/turning your rotors when your replacing pads or just pad slapping?

1977and2010 · 04-02-2013, 11:05 AM

I've been scuffing up the rotors with 100 grit sand paper when changing pads. I also forgot the one set of rotors I warped were the stop tech slotted/drilled stock size rotors. I was in a pinch and only had access to those.

JusticePete · 04-02-2013, 12:53 PM

4000 Pound Car
Race Car Speeds
_____________

High Temperature Range Brake Pads

The XP 12 is in the right range, but the pad is not aggressive enough for your higher speed driving. Moving to the XP 20 will yield improvement in performance, but with increased rotor wear.

My guess is your last track day you exceeded the grip of the pad. That led to increased temps and increased wear. Bleed your brakes well and give Rob a call about the pads.

FYI: if you don't have piles of brake and rotor dust at the bottom of your wheel after a session you need to change your pads :-)

03-31-2013, 10:52 PM	#1
TBone Negative Camber Junkie Drives: 2010 1SS LS3/6MN ABM 1 of 23 Join Date: May 2009 Location: ChiTown, IL Posts: 1,824	Brake pads for the Road Course Let's talk Brake Pads. For those of us that attend track events on Road Courses what kind of brake pads are you using and what kind of wear are you seeing. Share with us all of the brands you have tried and your experiences with them. It would help if you could tell us what kind of rotors you are using as well. The reason I bring this up is the pads I used last year are not up to the increased speeds , apparently, I am capable of this season. Last year I ran Carbotech XP-12 on the front and XP-8 on the rear. It took all year to use up the fronts at Autobahn and Road America. The rears, I have over half of the pads left to use this year. So last Friday I went to my home track, Autobahn in Joliet, IL., and ran the Full Track and proceeded to burn through the set of pads I had budgeted for the season, XP-12's in one day. OOOpps. Granted it was fun and I was faster than last year but now I need to find some new pads for the season. I do like the CT's for their initial bite and solid pedal. They are not too grabby. Plus there stopping power is phenomenal and consistent. We all know hauling down are fat pigs is no easy task. The CT's are nice and predictable and really gave me confidence. It has been recommended that I try the XP-20's. One of my coach's also suggested the Hawk DCT60's but mentioned that they are harder on rotors than the Carbotechs. I have an aversion to the Hawk's after a bad experience so I am leery of that brand. I am running the DBA 4000 slotted rotors all around. So these are my experiences, what are yours? T. __________________ "Horsepower is something that looks great in a Magazine article, but suspension is what actually gets you around the track fast.." Jack Olsen The drag strip is like sniffing glue, it's cheap, it's a decent buzz, it doesn't last long and they are all the same. Road racing is like China White Heroin, the buzz is stronger, the high lasts for hours, it's extremely addictive and they are all different. I can't wait for my next Track fix. DA HAWKS OWN DA CUP!!!!!

04-01-2013, 08:49 AM	#2
bannonm Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,536	T, what speeds are you hitting on the back straight coming from the south track? Sounds like you're flying. From what I've read on the CT pads you recommended last year, they wear faster because they are easier on rotors. Hawks make lots of dust and it's nasty on the wheels. They also have a tendency to work better after they warm up. It's going to be a trade off, wear out pads or wear out rotors. Perhaps with you're engine it's time to upgrade those front brakes to 6 pot. Bigger pad has more surface to dissipate the heat. Or add some brake ducts or remove the dust shields and either trim them or use the half shield from the ZL1. I trimmed mine and added ducts. Anxious to see how they work next month on the north track. I don't have that speed "problem" you have right now, so I'm getting away with HP+ pads. Been thinking about camming so CTS-V calipers may be going on as well. __________________

04-01-2013, 12:35 PM	#3
1977and2010 Tampa Gulf Coast Family Drives: 1977 Z28, 2SSRS 2010 M6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dunedin FL Posts: 810	There are a lot of things to consider. Some tracks are harder than others on brakes, wheels and tires. Time of year makes a difference, summer is obviously harder on brakes. How familiar a driver is with a track and how aggressive they are to name a few. I started with Hawk HPS pads. I think I did 5 full days on those pads. 3 at sebring, 1 at roebling road, and 1 at pbir. I did a lot of passing and also got passed. When I wore the fronts out I still had about 1/3 to 1/2 left out back. After that I put the DTC 30 up front same HPS in rear. Next time out I had completed many more mods and was much more comfortable on Sebring. I warped the rotors and glazed the pads in the second session. Last fall I upgraded the fronts to the cts-v setup with DTC-30 with cooling ducts and hp+ in the rear. In December at daytona they worked great. But that's a different track with lots of high speed straights for time to cool the brakes. The real test will be in 2 weeks when I go back to Sebring. Can't wait. I couldn't believe the size difference between the stock pads and the cts-v pads. The cts-v pad is so much bigger. Which should help with braking and pad longevity. Also the DTC-30 dust and squeak pretty bad, that I can live with. The pita is they are grabby and get into the abs pretty easily when cold on the street. __________________

04-01-2013, 08:37 PM	#8
TBone Negative Camber Junkie Drives: 2010 1SS LS3/6MN ABM 1 of 23 Join Date: May 2009 Location: ChiTown, IL Posts: 1,824	Bannon, I have some video up of an early session you can check out. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286574 I can't say I remember but north of 100 mph. All, I have been considering brake ducts, especially if I can talk bannon into helping me out, to help keep them cooler. But when I was there on Friday the outside temps were 50F tops. So they should have been cooler than running in the summer. As far as bigger pots, sure the pads are larger but the stock pots are stopping me now. I am getting into the ABS when I brake so I am not sure the extra coin spent there would be worth it. My coach races a Mustang and he has kept the stock pots just runs DCT-60's and runs endurance races, scca races and coaching over several weekends all on the same set of pads. His rotors look like crap but still has pads left so I guess it is a trade off with the Hawks. Does anyone use different brands at each end? As far as stock, HPS', or HP+ pads, well I am soooooooo far past those. Hell, I run HPS on my rears for the street with Carbotech Bobcats in the front ONLY because race pads squeal on the street or I would run them. Rob, I did not see those pads on your website. Do I need to call you for info on those? BTW, where is Norm, Cornerspeed and everyone else that track their cars? Oh, this event defiantly sold me on a harness bar and a 4 point harness. Both of the Mustangs mentioned in my other thread had them, loved them and they really kept them planted they said. I need to get the name of CornerSpeed's guy at speedware. T. __________________ "Horsepower is something that looks great in a Magazine article, but suspension is what actually gets you around the track fast.." Jack Olsen The drag strip is like sniffing glue, it's cheap, it's a decent buzz, it doesn't last long and they are all the same. Road racing is like China White Heroin, the buzz is stronger, the high lasts for hours, it's extremely addictive and they are all different. I can't wait for my next Track fix. DA HAWKS OWN DA CUP!!!!!

04-02-2013, 11:05 AM	#13
1977and2010 Tampa Gulf Coast Family Drives: 1977 Z28, 2SSRS 2010 M6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dunedin FL Posts: 810	I've been scuffing up the rotors with 100 grit sand paper when changing pads. I also forgot the one set of rotors I warped were the stop tech slotted/drilled stock size rotors. I was in a pinch and only had access to those. __________________

04-01-2013, 01:17 PM	#4
Rob@WretchedMS Drives: His Wife Crazy Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson Posts: 1,789	Carbotech's are good, as well as Cobalt Friction, and the Hawk Race pads. All of them are hard on the rotors, but you will likely be replacing the rotors due to heat issues before wear issues. I've stopped carrying Carbotech, but can help with Cobalt Friction and Hawk if you are looking, let me know.

04-01-2013, 02:02 PM	#5
jeremywes Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 504 View My Garage	Still trying to go thru my factory set but I think next weekend will be their end

04-01-2013, 02:17 PM	#6
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,542	Currently Hawk DTC-30 on CTSV calipers up front with ZL1 rotors and HP+ in the rear on stock rotors. They are definitely murdering the wheel finish, embedded in the clear coat up front. They work good getting me down from 140ish mph but I would like something that won't destroy wheels before I get my forgelines. I haven't had any fade issues even though I know the HP+ isn't ideal from a temp range standpoint, but in the rear they've done ok on street tires. That may change when I get my square 305 setup, I should probably switch to 2 different sets to reduce wear and dust but I'm lazy. I will run these until they die and then try something else.

04-01-2013, 08:54 PM	#9
Rob@WretchedMS Drives: His Wife Crazy Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson Posts: 1,789	send me an email rob@wretchedms.com i have them off the site right now, Just let me know what ones you are looking for in the email Also, do you have pictures of the harness bar for the Camaro?

04-01-2013, 09:32 PM	#10
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,542	This is the only one I know of. Although their seat base plates seems expensive for what you get, I could build them from 1/4" steel without much effort. http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/...ro-harness-bar I do like Blu808's roll bar with the removable crossbar. Unobtrusive and a bit more safety without losing the rear seat. Just not good for dual duty drag racing.

04-01-2013, 09:34 PM	#11
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,542	And I would add that bigger brakes doesn't always mean more aggressive braking. You could use a pad thats a step down in aggressiveness and have equal stopping power with better thermal management and hopefully longer rotor life. I would definitely go the brake duct route if you choose to stay with the stock setup. Keeping the heat down should help things last a bit longer since you're working them fairly hard. We have a few hundred more pounds to stop than the mustang.

04-01-2013, 09:50 PM	#12
ICTsccaCamaro Account Suspended Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 1,585	Are you guys resurfacing/turning your rotors when your replacing pads or just pad slapping?

04-02-2013, 12:53 PM	#14
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,171	4000 Pound Car Race Car Speeds _____________ High Temperature Range Brake Pads The XP 12 is in the right range, but the pad is not aggressive enough for your higher speed driving. Moving to the XP 20 will yield improvement in performance, but with increased rotor wear. My guess is your last track day you exceeded the grip of the pad. That led to increased temps and increased wear. Bleed your brakes well and give Rob a call about the pads. FYI: if you don't have piles of brake and rotor dust at the bottom of your wheel after a session you need to change your pads :-)