Pedders Makes a GTO hit a 1.02g skid pad

[Mr Twisty]

Pedders has been kind enough to stick with us since the beginning, letting us know every step of the way what their intentions are, and where they are in design, application and testing. A new guy comes in calling BS.
Pedders has a good reputation in the market, with very good credentials, including being invited to GM's area 51 for more development... What are your credentials?

Originally Posted by pharmd

This is very concerning to me...with the number of other vendors that will be working on similar products. I'd sure hate to purchase only to have to sell and buy another set of springs/shocks.

Edmunds v. Pedders... I think I'll hang with Pedders for now.

Keeping enthusiasts in the loop concerning product development rates highly in my book. We know exactly where Pedders stands in regards to how far along they are with testing, (search Pedders OLD posts) Where are the other Companies?

Here's a good example... Say I'm at the track, my setup has an issue that I can describe, but can't solve, call Pedders and ask to speak with someone about your problem. Then try the same thing with one of the competitors.

[Shurenuff]

I kind of agree with some of the points here, from both sides.

It would be nice to see a baseline test with a stock SS, then a test with an SS with only Pedders suspension upgrades. Sure the stock wheels and tires are not optimal and the improvement won't be nearly as dramatic, but it is a more fair comparison, IMO.

Of course, with that being said, I doubt the results would look as good from a marketing standpoint so I have my doubts that we'll see this type of comparison.

[Mr Twisty]

For anyone looking to install coilovers, other than the folks that want to drop the car correctly just for the look, fatter meat is high on the priority list.

[pharmd]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

Pedders has been kind enough to stick with us since the beginning, letting us know every step of the way what their intentions are, and where they are in design, application and testing. A new guy comes in calling BS.
Pedders has a good reputation in the market, with very good credentials, including being invited to GM's area 51 for more development... What are your credentials?



Edmunds v. Pedders... I think I'll hang with Pedders for now.

Keeping enthusiasts in the loop concerning product development rates highly in my book. We know exactly where Pedders stands in regards to how far along they are with testing, (search Pedders OLD posts) Where are the other Companies?

Here's a good example... Say I'm at the track, my setup has an issue that I can describe, but can't solve, call Pedders and ask to speak with someone about your problem. Then try the same thing with one of the competitors.

Here's the deal though, they are from Austrailia where the platform originated so they had the head start on development. What about dedicated road race shops like MTI, LG, Strano, DSE etc. These are Very reputable companies that make parts that flat out perform. These other shops don't have anything yet, because they are doing their R&D right now trying to create a good product, its not that they don't want to be involved. Edmunds, as far as I know, has no horse in the race on this, they are just reporting what they find. I agree with above poster, although the camaro performance was hurt by the test area (dirty, etc) the mustang still put down good numbers. Additionally, what seems worse to me, is the daily driving comfort was messed up also.

Listen, I want the Pedders stuff to flat Rock, heck, I pre-ordered the coilovers in December sight unseen, so I have to hope it rocks. I guess we will see soon enough, they said they are on the boat now.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

ok, it's time for me to start being a bit more active in this forum, and since the Black GTO in this thread is mine, i feel it's a good place to start.

We tested my GTO vs a stock GTO a couple Pedders days ago, and i was .13 more g's than the stock GTO.

I had 245/45/17 Bridgestone RE01R's, the stock GTO (donated by a local dealer) i believe had 245/45/17 BFG's.

So to say that the Bridgestone's are worth .13g's would be outstanding for Bridgestone, it's just not possible.

With that said, I drive my GTO 20k a year, and I drive it hard. the Ride comfort is fine, it's a bit more stiff than stock, but not harsh by any means. Now with the Xa's installed on the GTO having the ability to adjust the height and dampening is very nice. I've recently moved and no longer am i limited to not lowering my car, so it's been dropped about 35-40mm, handles very very well, and is comfortable to drive. Does it feel like a Cadillac?, no it doesn't, but if i wanted that i'd buy a Caddy.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by pharmd

Here's the deal though, they are from Austrailia where the platform originated so they had the head start on development. What about dedicated road race shops like MTI, LG, Strano, DSE etc. These are Very reputable companies that make parts that flat out perform. These other shops don't have anything yet, because they are doing their R&D right now trying to create a good product, its not that they don't want to be involved. Edmunds, as far as I know, has no horse in the race on this, they are just reporting what they find. I agree with above poster, although the camaro performance was hurt by the test area (dirty, etc) the mustang still put down good numbers. Additionally, what seems worse to me, is the daily driving comfort was messed up also.

Listen, I want the Pedders stuff to flat Rock, heck, I pre-ordered the coilovers in December sight unseen, so I have to hope it rocks. I guess we will see soon enough, they said they are on the boat now.

the Pedders staff in the USA is pretty maxed out with work load. I have no problem once things smooth out with all the R&D that we are doing to be able to post G forces in a progressive nature. We did this on the G8 but when we had the G8, we did not have all the new products we have currently.

Now the G8 will outhandle the Camaro. We all have to face this. We have documented a 200ft skid pad ratings of 1.01/1.03/1.05 G skit pad ratings with all the same eXtreme Track systems and 2 of them both are literally identical in every way except wheels and tires. The difference was using a split configured wheel versus 275s all around. The 275s all around will outperform the split configured wheel with all things equal. Why? split configured wheel will add to understeer.

Now we have passed on more info on handling to this community than anyone. Knowing the Camaro will not handle as well as the G8, we still are expecting to achieve over 1.0gs once all is done. Now what needs to be done? GM made a change in their rear rear cradle bushings. Pedders Au now has a complete rear cradle so their engineering staff can analyze what they did, and come up with the most opportune upgrade for them. They also have the sway bars as well.

Some of the data we do know is get the Camaro to its optimum handling. split configured tires are not the way to go, and you also will need to have the back end alittle lower than the front. running massive tires, with high offsets will hinder handling. The orange Camaro is an example. There was an extreme amount of inner tire contact to the inner fender well. This was a function of the hight offsets, too wide of wheel and a 315 tire. The new version will be different and we will find out about the characteristcs of the tire and wheel in a couple of weeks.

We present info to this great community to show all what we can do with a normal upgrade with a wheel and tire package that makes sense. Taking a GTO from the .85g to 1.02g shows serious improvement. Taking a 300C SRT8 from Arrington engines, with stock 20inch wheels and tires from a .83-.85g to a .99g with our Track system, shows progress and what we are all about.

We can all argue about how the test(s) should be run, but the bottom line is every platform we have ever done, we see very serious improvements while still maintaining a great ride quality. Check out the HHR we did on our benchmark thread. We got the HHR with just our Xa coil overs, and with stock wheels to turn a .97g. Also can any of you name any suspension manufacturer that has been as involved with this community, and has given all of you as much info as we have? I think not.! Not bragging but this is just how we do business, and we will continue to be accessable to all and to help all.

thanks for listening. (or I guess readingLOL)

mike
dms

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Mike, i think you need a radio show, lol

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS

ok, it's time for me to start being a bit more active in this forum, and since the Black GTO in this thread is mine, i feel it's a good place to start.

We tested my GTO vs a stock GTO a couple Pedders days ago, and i was .13 more g's than the stock GTO.

I had 245/45/17 Bridgestone RE01R's, the stock GTO (donated by a local dealer) i believe had 245/45/17 BFG's.

So to say that the Bridgestone's are worth .13g's would be outstanding for Bridgestone, it's just not possible.

With that said, I drive my GTO 20k a year, and I drive it hard. the Ride comfort is fine, it's a bit more stiff than stock, but not harsh by any means. Now with the Xa's installed on the GTO having the ability to adjust the height and dampening is very nice. I've recently moved and no longer am i limited to not lowering my car, so it's been dropped about 35-40mm, handles very very well, and is comfortable to drive. Does it feel like a Cadillac?, no it doesn't, but if i wanted that i'd buy a Caddy.

I am not saying you have a poor product. I am sure it is better than stock. Again, the problem is testing and bragging about numbers that are misleading. Here is a review of the tires you tested your car on by soloracer.com. Everyone can read for themselves on how much better the Bridgestone RE01R's than stock. You say it yourself, you are guessing that there is not a .13 g difference. That fact is, you do not know how much better because you have never tested it that way, at least show everyone. You don't even know what BFGoodrich tires were on the other test car.

http://www.soloracerblog.com/2007/11/potenza-re01r.html
Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R Tire Review
The Potenza RE-01R (with the "R" signifying Revolutionary) is the Extreme Performance Summer tire member of Bridgestone's global family of Potenza performance tires developed for enthusiastic sports car, sports coupe and performance sedan drivers.







FIRST IMPRESSIONS:
After we picked up our 2007 Subaru WRX project car, we wanted to replace the factory tires with something better suited for autocross and spirited driving. The current hot tire for the SCCA Solo Street Touring class happens to be the Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R so we figured it would be a great choice. We went with the 245/45ZR17 size and had them mounted on our factory WRX wheels.

Wow! These tires are probably the best we've ever had on a street car. Grip is awesome and noise is minimal...what more could you ask for with a street tire? For autocross, they work great...even better than our previous favorite, the Falken Azenis. We've had minimal experience with them on wet roads, but they seem to handle it pretty well.


Here is a link to Bridgestone Motorsports:

http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/...ing_tyres.aspx

Bridgestone Racing and Rally Tyres


The Potenza RE-01R is Bridgestone's tyre for drifters. It is used by top drifters in Japan and also the Autosalon Drift Racing team in Australia.

There can be few tougher ways for a tyre to earn its street cred then in drift racing - but that's exactly where the Bridgestone Potenza RE01R is right at home.

It incorporates Bridgestone's semi-slick shoulder block, wide straight groove, racing sit, wider cntre rib, cooling sit and advanced polymer technologies for high speed, high temperature durability along with high hydro evacuation. Best of all, it's completely legal for on road use.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by That Guy

Your testing is not right. You are still comparing apples to oranges on everyone your company has posted. With your lateral g test, why don't you get a base line with the same bigger wheels and tires on the same track on a stock G8? Your web site shows a stock trim G8 with stock tires/wheels then your product with much better tire/wheel combo. Your testing methods are weak and misleading to consumers. The only real test posted by an independent (Edmunds) trashes your product.

It is all in the eyes of the beholder.

The Edmond's test was done on a vehicle that had very little time to complete setup. The Hennessey car runs a unique tire and wheel package with huge RWHP. As we continue to work with John and his TEAM at Hennessey we will refine the setup and please our toughest critics. That said I can tell you that other publications have tested the same monster Hennessey vehicle with the same setup with radically different results. You'll be reading about them soon.

As far as our testing methods, we are brutally honest with them. They are not perfect. They are what we have available. In the case of the G8 there has been a continuous evolution of our project G8. Here is the video with stock tires and wheels. .83 to .94 to now with tires wheels and Xa coilovers over 1G.



We describe the pad surface, we tell you exactly what equipment is on the car. Show you the spin outs, and successful runs. Our methodology is as good as we can provide given access to vehicles, test pads and many other variables. Yesterday I visited with Matt Berger to discuss the soon to be released Berger Camaro. The Berger Camaro will be equipped with Pedders bits based on the performance of the G8 and Matt's first hand experience with the Pedderised vehicle.

All that said, the informational posts, the videos, the car events are nothing more than an introduction to Pedders. We ALWAYS tell our clients that they should ride or drive a Pedderised vehicle before they buy. Your first hand experience is more important than anything we say or print. I will caution you that test driving a Pedderised anything is expensive. Our closing rate for those that schedule test drives with our Dealers are incredibly high. We have a number of Dealers who insist they have never failed to convert a prospect to a client after a test drive.

I have gone further than that with skeptics to prove a point and will do so right now. Make arrangements to upgrade your 2010 Camaro to Pedders. Your installation and bits will be completed at 15% off of current retail pricing with a money back guarantee. If you are not 100% satisfied with your Pedderised Camaro we will refund your money and convert the car back to box stock. That is how confident I am in our Camaro bits.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

It is all in the eyes of the beholder.

The Edmond's test was done on a vehicle that had very little time to complete setup. The Hennessey car runs a unique tire and wheel package with huge RWHP. As we continue to work with John and his TEAM at Hennessey we will refine the setup and please our toughest critics. That said I can tell you that other publications have tested the same monster Hennessey vehicle with the same setup with radically different results. You'll be reading about them soon.

As far as our testing methods, we are brutally honest with them. They are not perfect. They are what we have available. In the case of the G8 there has been a continuous evolution of our project G8. Here is the video with stock tires and wheels. .83 to .94 to now with tires wheels and Xa coilovers over 1G.



We describe the pad surface, we tell you exactly what equipment is on the car. Show you the spin outs, and successful runs. Our methodology is as good as we can provide given access to vehicles, test pads and many other variables. Yesterday I visited with Matt Berger to discuss the soon to be released Berger Camaro. The Berger Camaro will be equipped with Pedders bits based on the performance of the G8 and Matt's first hand experience with the Pedderised vehicle.

All that said, the informational posts, the videos, the car events are nothing more than an introduction to Pedders. We ALWAYS tell our clients that they should ride or drive a Pedderised vehicle before they buy. Your first hand experience is more important than anything we say or print. I will caution you that test driving a Pedderised anything is expensive. Our closing rate for those that schedule test drives with our Dealers are incredibly high. We have a number of Dealers who insist they have never failed to convert a prospect to a client after a test drive.

I have gone further than that with skeptics to prove a point and will do so right now. Make arrangements to upgrade your 2010 Camaro to Pedders. Your installation and bits will be completed at 15% off of current retail pricing with a money back guarantee. If you are not 100% satisfied with your Pedderised Camaro we will refund your money and convert the car back to box stock. That is how confident I am in our Camaro bits.

Money talks and walks, and think this is a great challenge to anyone looking to feel validation with their purchase of these products. I know that I can say I appreciate all that you've shown us thus far and look forward to what you bring to us in the future. Can you say which publications we can find this testing in?

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by That Guy

I am not saying you have a poor product. I am sure it is better than stock. Again, the problem is testing and bragging about numbers that are misleading. Here is a review of the tires you tested your car on by soloracer.com. Everyone can read for themselves on how much better the Bridgestone RE01R's than stock. You say it yourself, you are guessing that there is not a .13 g difference. That fact is, you do not know how much better because you have never tested it that way, at least show everyone. You don't even know what BFGoodrich tires were on the other test car.

http://www.soloracerblog.com/2007/11/potenza-re01r.html
Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R Tire Review
The Potenza RE-01R (with the "R" signifying Revolutionary) is the Extreme Performance Summer tire member of Bridgestone's global family of Potenza performance tires developed for enthusiastic sports car, sports coupe and performance sedan drivers.







FIRST IMPRESSIONS:
After we picked up our 2007 Subaru WRX project car, we wanted to replace the factory tires with something better suited for autocross and spirited driving. The current hot tire for the SCCA Solo Street Touring class happens to be the Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R so we figured it would be a great choice. We went with the 245/45ZR17 size and had them mounted on our factory WRX wheels.

Wow! These tires are probably the best we've ever had on a street car. Grip is awesome and noise is minimal...what more could you ask for with a street tire? For autocross, they work great...even better than our previous favorite, the Falken Azenis. We've had minimal experience with them on wet roads, but they seem to handle it pretty well.


Here is a link to Bridgestone Motorsports:

http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/...ing_tyres.aspx

Bridgestone Racing and Rally Tyres


The Potenza RE-01R is Bridgestone's tyre for drifters. It is used by top drifters in Japan and also the Autosalon Drift Racing team in Australia.

There can be few tougher ways for a tyre to earn its street cred then in drift racing - but that's exactly where the Bridgestone Potenza RE01R is right at home.

It incorporates Bridgestone's semi-slick shoulder block, wide straight groove, racing sit, wider cntre rib, cooling sit and advanced polymer technologies for high speed, high temperature durability along with high hydro evacuation. Best of all, it's completely legal for on road use.

It would be great to know the difference Pedders makes versus how much of the gains are from just the tires. I agree that the product is probably great, but it's like someone selling some control arms on a solid axle car and throwing drag radials on the car during the test to show the gains in 60'. I know it's exaggerated, but the same concept still applies.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

It would be great to know the difference Pedders makes versus how much of the gains are from just the tires. I agree that the product is probably great, but it's like someone selling some control arms on a solid axle car and throwing drag radials on the car during the test to show the gains in 60'.

What's wrong with that

[That Guy]

Thank you JusticePete for that video. That is the first I have seen that. That is more like it. Good luck with your product.

[Speed74SS]

How close are the Xtreme Coilovers to coming in? Have you set up Lingenfelter as an intaller yet? They have my car right now and hopefully it will be completed sometime in July. I preordered the coilovers in Dec and I had the shipping address changed to Lingenfelter. Hopefully you will be working with them to get the right set up on my car as well. I am looking forward to it.