Dealership says CAI is the problem...? (RESOLVED!)

[45thAnniversary2SS]

I hate when dealerships act like that. I would not go back to them for ANYTHING.

[ackeight]

Do you go to the same gas station for your 93? If you do change it up and do another fuse pull. You almost need another camaro friend to drive your car to see if its really malfunctioning since describing it on the forum is hard. Or you can test drive another camaro on the dealers lot to feel another one maybe.

[JCunningham]

My OTR and ported tb caused alot of bucking under 2000rpm. Its rare to find a dealer that knows anything about aftermarket. They cant tell the difference between a $500 CAI and a $20 ebay one so they want it off so it is one less thing that could be the problem.

[Juice2SS]

I had the surge and bucking issue at cold start with my 2011 L99. I installed the cold air and VMAX which helped. It wasn't until I got my car tuned that it cleared up completely.

[JCunningham]

The camaro seams to be all over the map. I bet gm had to run these cars so lean to pass emissions that the car is right on the line. I plan to get a tune.

[2SSRSinBama]

surging and bucking from a cold start is common for a lot of cold air intakes on a lot of cars... I know on the turbo Cobalt the only CAI that WOULDN'T do that was the Hahn Racecraft CAI... AEM, K&N and all the others had very bad surging problems on those cars...

my CAI is fine on my camaro though, i've not had any issues... make sure all the connections are tight on it

[My 5th]

Here's a couple of things to add to the list:

Check plug wires for resistance or breaks or loose fir on coil or plug.
Check spark plugs for improper gap

And as a last resort:
Bury an Eye of Newt and a garlic clove under a chinaberry tree at midnight.

[SPCBA]

these threads amuse me....go to a different dealer who actually likes cars and will work for GMs warranty money

[NotYetLegend]

I have definitely experienced these 2 issues on my totally stock LS3. I remember a few weeks after having the car I left it running with my friend in the passenger seat while I ran into a store to order some breakfast tacos (like ya do...). It took about 5 minutes for the ladies to make them and for me to get payed up etc, when I got back to my car my friend was like, "dude your car is alive". At idle it definitely lopes a bit in stock form (especially if you don't load the engine with the a/c or fan) sending little "wiggles" through the car that never seem to repeat in any discernible pattern.

Like you I think the idle is cool, but the first 1-2 minutes of driving is not cool. I live in an apartment and getting out of the parking lot in the morning is a very jerky affair. It feels like there is twice as much engine braking available for the first minute or so and I can hear the whole drivetrain lashing back and forth over the speed bumps and if I even think about letting off the gas pedal a touch etc... definitely not sexy. Note when going home for lunch (to let the dog out) I drive the exact same route in and out of the same parking lot and have relatively few hiccups. I always tossed it up to my brain not working well at 7:30am and I was just not driving smoothly. Now I need to remember to listen for the miss at steady rpm's like you mentioned, I have noticed something like this before but never gave it much thought. As mentioned above, perhaps the ecu is tuned towards the lean side and this doesn't mix well with a cold engine which explains why some report improvements after a more performance minded ecu calibration.

The most obvious solution is to get long tube headers and a tune!

[HarryNW]

Thanks NotYetLegend and all the rest. Here is a quick update.

I put the stock AF back on over the weekend - greatly reduced issues. The idle seems no different but the cold start hesitation/bucking is nearly gone. I say nearly, as there were some slight hesitations over the last two mornings, but night and day overall.

Given the feedback on the thread, this appears to be one or more of the following:

1. A poorly installed CAI - maybe I overlooked something in terms of a connection point, but every connection is pretty boolean, there are the major gasket connections that are all fit properly and tight, and a heat-shrinked, air-tight connection to one smaller hose. Not exactly sure how this could be an install issue.
2. A bad/flawed CAI - Per above, there is not much to this - the air flows, the filter and the box. Not really sure how this could be the issue. C.A.I. is "tried and true" - One person mentioned a pin-sized hole in their Throttle body gasket, and I suppose I can check for any leaks like that...
3. The after-market CAI requires the car to warm up? Not sure why the mechanics/fluid-dynamics involved here would require that...

I will be putting the CAI back on this week, checking for bad seals and any potential air leaks and report back.

I want to keep all things equal if possible and will stick with the local gas station for refills, but I will take a shot at a different gas station if this persists.

[NotYetLegend]

Very interesting. One thought I had is you could try removing the filter element from the stock air box to see if the problem returns. Not sure how you feel about this but I do know some forum go'ers remove theirs at the drag strip etc... This would remove some of the vacuum present in the intake manifold and maybe put it closer to what it was with the CAI installed; I'm just wondering if insufficient vacuum may be causing the problem. You could also leave the stock filter but intentionally "botch" one of the hose connections (you would have to get kinda creative with this) to induce a bit of a leak and see if it brings the issue back? Not the greatest suggestions but if you're bored some night this week it may be fun to do some simple troubleshooting (just don't forget in the morning and drive all the way to work!). When I worked in software support the first step in finding a "bug" was duplicating the issue reliably, which is why I made these suggestions. Good Luck!

[guapo]

Best of luck keep us posted.

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by JCunningham

The camaro seams to be all over the map. I bet gm had to run these cars so lean to pass emissions that the car is right on the line. I plan to get a tune.

They run at stoich until you're at full throttle...when they're stock and you're at full throttle they're rich if anything, never lean...they also run WAY less than the peak efficiency for timing too...that way the idle control algorithm can add spark to control the idle very easily...if they ran the most efficient timing, adding more to save a dropping idle wouldn't help...running it low actually makes the HC emissions probably a little worse...makes the cats need to work that much harder.

Originally Posted by 2SSRSinBama

surging and bucking from a cold start is common for a lot of cold air intakes on a lot of cars... I know on the turbo Cobalt the only CAI that WOULDN'T do that was the Hahn Racecraft CAI... AEM, K&N and all the others had very bad surging problems on those cars...

my CAI is fine on my camaro though, i've not had any issues... make sure all the connections are tight on it

Any cold air intake, affects the MAF sensor calibration, I don't care what the company tries to tell you, it may only be a very minor effect, it may be major, but either way, it's not 100% stock anymore...that's usually where the surge/buck comes from...a good tuner can fix it.

Originally Posted by HarryNW

Thanks NotYetLegend and all the rest. Here is a quick update.

I put the stock AF back on over the weekend - greatly reduced issues. The idle seems no different but the cold start hesitation/bucking is nearly gone. I say nearly, as there were some slight hesitations over the last two mornings, but night and day overall.

Given the feedback on the thread, this appears to be one or more of the following:

1. A poorly installed CAI - maybe I overlooked something in terms of a connection point, but every connection is pretty boolean, there are the major gasket connections that are all fit properly and tight, and a heat-shrinked, air-tight connection to one smaller hose. Not exactly sure how this could be an install issue.
2. A bad/flawed CAI - Per above, there is not much to this - the air flows, the filter and the box. Not really sure how this could be the issue. C.A.I. is "tried and true" - One person mentioned a pin-sized hole in their Throttle body gasket, and I suppose I can check for any leaks like that...
3. The after-market CAI requires the car to warm up? Not sure why the mechanics/fluid-dynamics involved here would require that...

I will be putting the CAI back on this week, checking for bad seals and any potential air leaks and report back.

I want to keep all things equal if possible and will stick with the local gas station for refills, but I will take a shot at a different gas station if this persists.

My LS3, when it was bone stock, would have a very very smooth consistent idle, and if I stood behind the car, I would randomly hear it sound like it was cutting out now and then...very random and unpredictable...very minor, and couldn't feel it, could only hear it in the exhaust. I checked all the sensors and wires and plugs and so forth, no problems at all...so I said screw it and modded the heck out of the car. Your smoothness when driving problem is probably at very low throttle right? And very low RPM (below 2000 mostly) right? I bet there's nothing wrong with your CAI intake or the way you installed it at all, I'd bet it's completely normal, and with a tune from a good shop will be gone. I remember being impressed with how smooth the completely stock LS3 would run in gear, say just rolling along in first, at idle, with no throttle input at all, it was very very good, but it wasn't like it was an electric car.

[HarryNW]

A couple more days of morning starts and despite my disbelief, I have to say definitively that the hesitation/bucking at cold start has all but vanished with the stock AF back on.

I am going to re-install the new CAI this week, triple check all connections, and see if the issue returns.