CAI: K&N or Cold Air Inductions?

[litle88]

Vararam (10,11's) Haltech, rotofab, ADM are thee best imho. In no particular order.

[Sales @ CAI Inc]

Originally Posted by Sugarfree135

Wow I bet it never reaches the same temperature as the engine bay then even though it's IN THE ENGINE BAY! ��

You are correct, it doesn't, data log with it and you will see that fairly quickly. While driving the IAT is typically within 2-4 degrees of the ambient air temperature. If you are sitting and idling for a long time, then heat soak will start to set in a bit, but even then the IAT is very low compared to most. As soon as you start moving again the cooler air also cools the tube down getting your IAT low again. Insulation and a air source that is much cooler than the air in the engine bay works wonders.

[Sugarfree135]

I'm not trying to start a fight I'm just saying that numbers in a shop with the hood up are biased and not real world, and that we are comparing apples to apples because the gains are negligible between products

[Sugarfree135]

Almost all other intakes "isolate"/"insulate" the filter from the engine bay as well, it's not a proprietary cai design. Is 2 degrees temp really going to yield enough timing advance to make a difference if any at all? I mean I understand that a couple degrees of timing makes a pretty big difference but I'm just saying at what point does one product over the other ACTUALLY make a difference in performance?

[thahemp]

See strych9's post. That wasn't in a shop. Do datalog too... You won't be speculating and jumping to conclusions then. You can see it plain as day.

[Sugarfree135]

I didn't see the timing numbers on his post I apologize, this still only shows the gains vs stock though not vs another performance filter.

[Sales @ CAI Inc]

Look at the Jannetty tests that were done, all your data and comparisons are right there for you. And if memory serves me correctly, all testing was done with the hood closed.

Aside from performance gains, many "CAI's" out there are designed very poorly and are well know for throwing CEL's due to fuel trims not being where they need to be.

A difference is a difference, if you are tuning a vehicle and trying to make it the best you possibly can, everything comes into play. Even if one product compared to another has only a difference of a few HP showing up on a dyno, that does not mean that airflow, IAT, fuel trims, timing, etc. are not all important factors that are being looked at. There also is fitment, material quality, warranty, looks, and features that come into play. It just depends on how much you want to dive into it, and how important all those little details are to you.

[thahemp]

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107002

[axis]

Originally Posted by Denis

i really liked the performance gains to be had with my Halltech. had it installed for a year or so. i recently (3 or so months ago) added a Apex scoop and washer bottle relocate. However, recently switched from a Halltech to an ADM Race intake, mainly due to the poor construction (i felt) of my halltech. it just seemed flimsy. now my ADM on the other hand feels very solid, looks great, and i havent noticed a change in performance at all. so i would say the ADM and the Halltech perform the same. so for my money i should have gone with ADM in the first place.

You do know that the ADM is almost $100 more than the Yellowjacket? If, by your own words, they are equal, you paid twice make a zero performance gain.

Originally Posted by Sugarfree135

I'm not trying to start a fight I'm just saying that numbers in a shop with the hood up are biased and not real world, and that we are comparing apples to apples because the gains are negligible between products

If you're going to start a argument, at least know the parameters in which these tests are done. CAI's are tested with the hood DOWN. This is how they are sealed up when going down the road.

[Denis]

Originally Posted by axis

You do know that the ADM is almost $100 more than the Yellowjacket? If, by your own words, they are equal, you paid twice make a zero performance gain.

Got the ADM unit used for a pretty good deal. I am lot happier with the ADM unit than I was with the Halltech. For the price I was very disappointed With the construction of the air box mainly. Very flimsy. The ADM unit is like a rock in comparison. Plus it moves the MAF and IAT sensor to inside the air box away from the heat. Which means more realistic IAT #s which means less timing being pulled which means more power when I need it. All in all I'm happy with the switch.

[axis]

Originally Posted by Denis

Got the ADM unit used for a pretty good deal. I am lot happier with the ADM unit than I was with the Halltech. For the price I was very disappointed With the construction of the air box mainly. Very flimsy. The ADM unit is like a rock in comparison. Plus it moves the MAF and IAT sensor to inside the air box away from the heat. Which means more realistic IAT #s which means less timing being pulled which means more power when I need it. All in all I'm happy with the switch.

I can understand getting what you want. If you're happy with the ADM, then great for you. I'm speaking of performance only, although I think the Yellowjacket looks very nice as well. Huge velocity stack and all one piece intake tube makes for one helluva combo for getting the smoothest flow possible. That equates to more air in the same space. How can moving the IAT sensor to the airbox give you a more "realistic" IAT. I've never understood that reasoning but everyone that mentions it says the EXACT SAME THING. Sounds like a advertising point. The OEM PCM is tuned to read the IAT's at the OEM location. Moving it to the airbox doesn't magically lower your actual IAT's. All it could possibly do is trick the computer into thinking it's cooler than it actually is. The air going into your engine isn't going to be any cooler by just moving the IAT sensor. If you go by TRUE IAT readings, the yellowjacket is within a degree or two of ambient, while cruising. Seeing that you can't get any colder than ambient, how can moving it make any difference?

[thahemp]

Originally Posted by axis

I can understand getting what you want. If you're happy with the ADM, then great for you. I'm speaking of performance only, although I think the Yellowjacket looks very nice as well. Huge velocity stack and all one piece intake tube makes for one helluva combo for getting the smoothest flow possible. That equates to more air in the same space. How can moving the IAT sensor to the airbox give you a more "realistic" IAT. I've never understood that reasoning but everyone that mentions it says the EXACT SAME THING. Sounds like a advertising point. The OEM PCM is tuned to read the IAT's at the OEM location. Moving it to the airbox doesn't magically lower your actual IAT's. All it could possibly do is trick the computer into thinking it's cooler than it actually is. The air going into your engine isn't going to be any cooler by just moving the IAT sensor. If you go by TRUE IAT readings, the yellowjacket is within a degree or two of ambient, while cruising. Seeing that you can't get any colder than ambient, how can moving it make any difference?

That's exactly what I think when I read that too axis. Why trick the computer? You're just asking for it.

[Camarojt]

It all boils down to this, ADM is a top notch CAI! Whether or not it makes more power is an almost unprovable point. As you said before, all someone has to do is dispute the test that they don't like.
I personally love the design, the looks, the performance, and the MAF placement.

Ok, all intake pipes heat soak under certain conditions? Agree?? Doesn't matter what brand. Some more than others.

So it's safe to say that if the air temp can be changed even some from location in the
(a. air box) vs as it travels thru the tube and it's read there in the
(b. stock location) then it's possible that by having the MAF in the air box it will read a lower air temp.

It doesn't CHANGE the temp of the air going in the tube. That temp is gonna be what its gonna be regardless of where the MAF is.

If its ambient in the box, then the computer reads that temp as ambient and not the 2,3,4 or 6 degrees hotter temps inside the hot tube.

Call it fooling the computer or call it a better way of tuning. The end result is better power due to timing not being pulled Bc of heat soak.

Timing is way more important than how accurate the air/fuel mixture being a tad rich is on these motors.

Will it outperform another type of CAI like the Halltech? I think it's possible YES but it's splitting hairs. One thing that cannot be disputed is the durability of the ADM intake. It is lightweight but tight as a drum!
There are no unhappy ADM intake owners that I've heard of. However I have heard that about other brands not satisfying the buyers.
Most people just like what they bought.

But there seems to be so much attention to whether or not the MAF in the airbox makes a difference.
Lets assume it makes no difference?
Then you end up with a CAI that's still built damn good, performs damn good, and can still be used if you wanna go supercharged later without having to start all over.

[axis]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

It all boils down to this, ADM is a top notch CAI! Whether or not it makes more power is an almost unprovable point. As you said before, all someone has to do is dispute the test that they don't like.
I personally love the design, the looks, the performance, and the MAF placement.

Ok, all intake pipes heat soak under certain conditions? Agree?? Doesn't matter what brand. Some more than others.

So it's safe to say that if the air temp can be changed even some from location in the
(a. air box) vs as it travels thru the tube and it's read there in the
(b. stock location) then it's possible that by having the MAF in the air box it will read a lower air temp.

It doesn't CHANGE the temp of the air going in the tube. That temp is gonna be what its gonna be regardless of where the MAF is.

If its ambient in the box, then the computer reads that temp as ambient and not the 2,3,4 or 6 degrees hotter temps inside the hot tube.

Call it fooling the computer or call it a better way of tuning. The end result is better power due to timing not being pulled Bc of heat soak.

Timing is way more important than how accurate the air/fuel mixture being a tad rich is on these motors.

Will it outperform another type of CAI like the Halltech? I think it's possible YES but it's splitting hairs. One thing that cannot be disputed is the durability of the ADM intake. It is lightweight but tight as a drum!
There are no unhappy ADM intake owners that I've heard of. However I have heard that about other brands not satisfying the buyers.
Most people just like what they bought.

But there seems to be so much attention to whether or not the MAF in the airbox makes a difference.
Lets assume it makes no difference?
Then you end up with a CAI that's still built damn good, performs damn good, and can still be used if you wanna go supercharged later without having to start all over.

No one is saying that the ADM is a bad unit. I too think it's a quality CAI with good construction. I just smile when the IAT sensor movement comes up. I can buy a $25 resistor kit off ebay that will let me change the IAT's to whatever I want. The point is, i'd rather have my PCM fuel for the IAT's as GM has written them in the programming. I prefer to get my IAT's down the old fashion way, by supplying it the coldest air possible. When you've been here as long as I and many others, you've seen the threads were people weren't happy with pretty much every product on Camaro5. That goes for ADM as well. They've just made a resurgence lately.