Why would I want a Z/28 over the ZL1?

[2012 ZL1#1658]

The Z28 is definitely a bad ass car but being that I own a ZL1...I like to think of it as more horses 580 vs 505 and therefore is still the king. IMO.

[Slapshot]

Originally Posted by LBV

I know it's capitalism but you can bet your bottom dollar they're making waaay more profit on the Z28 than they are on the ZL1 and I think it's wrong personally.

I highly doubt that statement. There's a lot more money in the 28. Obviously with the price TBD there's room to go either way. Take a stock SS and turn it into each variant of the Z and I'd bet my life's savings it cost more to get the 28. By a lot.

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[ZL1LEGEND]

Drop the GM marketing and but the car that you feel is the best for you. GM is stirring the pot to make the Z28 attractive. Same thing they did with the ZL1.

What it comes down to is you. Are you a professional race car driver who will notice the 4 sec difference between the Z28 and Zl1? If so, you get the z28. If not, like me, get the ZL1.

I would bet that my personal butt dyno would say my car feels faster. I'm never going to drive the ring. And if I did I wouldn't be able to make worth of the few seconds.

IMHO

Just be happy GM is producing these kinds of cars for under $100k. Do that with another manufacture.

[ZL1LEGEND]

Drop the GM marketing and but the car that you feel is the best for you. GM is stirring the pot to make the Z28 attractive. Same thing they did with the ZL1.

What it comes down to is you. Are you a professional race car driver who will notice the 4 sec difference between the Z28 and Zl1? If so, you get the z28. If not, like me, get the ZL1.

I would bet that my personal butt dyno would say my car feels faster. I'm never going to drive the ring. And if I did I wouldn't be able to make worth of the few seconds.

IMHO

Just be happy GM is producing these kinds of cars for under $100k. Do that with another manufacture.

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by Chevrolade

7.0 nuff said!! It will beat the ZL1 in the 1/4 just wait and see.

Not here to pick a fight but I think you may underestimate the ZL1 with drag slicks. It pulls hard all the way through the RPM range of the car and if I give you the Z/28 and $5K for mods and I get my ZL1 and $5K for mods...I will guarantee you I beat you by more than a full second. The LS7 is very close to peaked out on power the way it is delivered. The LSA has 150HP easy still left in it. Again, not trying to start an argument but the Z-28 is NOT a 1/4 mile car.

With that said, I love the Z/28 and everything it is about. If I could ADD one to my garage, I would. BUT, I will not be selling my ZL1 to get one. I am not enough of a track rat (road course) to justify it.

[Joebot8484]

The Z/28 is a better track car hands down, but the ZL1 is a better all around car. If they both came out at the same time I would still pick the ZL1. If I had boat loads of money and a track in my back yard I might have gotten the Z/28. Oh and the 4 sec faster at the ring is more like 9 sec faster, the rain really slowed down that run. I think it is just awesome we get these nasty cars at all!

[hognutz]

If what I have read is true the Z/28 is not even really a production car something like 450 units.

so for all the people asking why they would buy one many people won't be able ot if they wanted to.

it's an apples vs oragnes comparison. It is limited and expensive. they built almost 2k Zl1's in 2012 and because they limited the alocation I got bumped to 13.

so how bad would it be if there were only 450 to choose from????

I like that they built it it is the best handling camaro ever built whats not to like. like I said earlier though its not the car for me.

[*007]

GM Marketing:

"The Legend is Reborn"
"The Most Technologically Advanced Camaro Ever!"
"Highest Horsepower Production Camaro in History!"
"Engineered To Extremes!"
"Launch Control!"
"5 PTM Modes!"
"580 HP"
"556 ft/lbs TQ"
"1,000 drag strip launches without a failure"

vs.

"The Most Track Capable Camaro Ever!"
(+$20,000)

My take is the 3.8 second Ring difference could be easily overcome with some nice tires on the front of the ZL1. If it's only about the Ring speed, put some damn tires on the ZL1 and lets see what happens.

GM has gotten a track specific car and a Track/Strip/Street Specific Legend

Both great..... But ONE is MASTER! You choose!

[Whos_Drivin]

Here's my take on stock setup-

COPO: 100% drag strip
Z/28: 85% road course, 15% street
ZL1: 33.3% street, 33.3% road course, 33.3% drag strip
1LE: 50% street, 35% road course, 15% drag strip
SS: 70% street, 15% road course, 15% drag strip
LT: 100% street

Whichever gives you the balance you're looking for, that's the best one for YOU. Or pick one and mod to your taste.

Then again, there's always...
Mustang: 50% hillbilly, 50% vag

[NightmareZL1]

Originally Posted by *007

GM Marketing:

"The Legend is Reborn"
"The Most Technologically Advanced Camaro Ever!"
"Highest Horsepower Production Camaro in History!"
"Engineered To Extremes!"
"Launch Control!"
"5 PTM Modes!"
"580 HP"
"556 ft/lbs TQ"
"1,000 drag strip launches without a failure"

vs.

"The Most Track Capable Camaro Ever!"
(+$20,000)

My take is the 3.8 second Ring difference could be easily overcome with some nice tires on the front of the ZL1. If it's only about the Ring speed, put some damn tires on the ZL1 and lets see what happens.

GM has gotten a track specific car and a Track/Strip/Street Specific Legend

Both great..... But ONE is MASTER! You choose!

Easy choice.
Not only at the ring though, look at the times and speeds published by GM at the MRC. The Z28 has a TINY bit more speed in the High speed Esses section. The Z28 is carrying only 3% more speed through the section with tires that are race slick compound. So, 20% more grip gave them a 3% difference in speed. Come ON! Give the ZL1 good tires and tell the truth - The ZL1 is and will still be king. With Autocrossers, who will stay in first through 3 gear, get a Z28. But for real tracks, give me race tires and the Monster ZL1. Additionally, The MRC never gave the ZL1 a chance to open up. Shitty tires gave it poor exit speed and the absence of a long straight tied up it's horses and torque.

To any who have not driven a ZL1, due to tire limitations, we cannot get on the throttle , exiting a turn, until the car is almost straightened out. Not because of weight, but due to tires failing to hook up if at all sideways.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

Easy choice.
Not only at the ring though, look at the times and speeds published by GM at the MRC. The Z28 has a TINY bit more speed in the High speed Esses section. The Z28 is carrying only 3% more speed through the section with tires that are race slick compound. So, 20% more grip gave them a 3% difference in speed. Come ON! Give the ZL1 good tires and tell the truth - The ZL1 is and will still be king. With Autocrossers, who will stay in first through 3 gear, get a Z28. But for real tracks, give me race tires and the Monster ZL1. Additionally, The MRC never gave the ZL1 a chance to open up. Shitty tires gave it poor exit speed and the absence of a long straight tied up it's horses and torque.

To any who have not driven a ZL1, due to tire limitations, we cannot get on the throttle , exiting a turn, until the car is almost straightened out. Not because of weight, but due to tires failing to hook up if at all sideways.

The Ring has plenty of long straights and it still lost to the Z/28 when it had a nice, dry track to run on.

The ZL1 only has a tiny bit more speed through the esses than the 1LE. The 1LE had only a 0.7 MPH slower max speed vs the ZL1. What's your point? Give the 1LE the bigger sway bars, DSSV dampers and 305 Troferos and I bet it almost beats the ZL1 but that isn't how GM built it and they won't change it. We get it, you are a sensitive ZL1 owner who has to go around pointing out how great the ZL1 is an it's not fair, but stop. It's annoying hearing that.

Don't forget the extra weight you are carrying. Those nice sticky, soft tires you want will be torn up much faster trying to control the nose heavy ZL1. Then you get heat soak and that will kill your power, which the Z/28 doesn't have to deal with nearly as much.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by AirBull

After seeing the new Z/28 Nürburgring time at 7:37.4 compared to the ZL1's 7:41.3, I'm not terribly impressed with 3.9 seconds on a 13 mile track, for all that one gives up and pays more for, compared to that of a ZL1.

First off, nobody has seen the Z/28's straight acceleration times yet, 0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-100, and when they do, my guess is that it will be lucky to even keep pace with the ZL1. Despite the 300lbs weight savings, the Z/28 produces 505hp & 481lbs/ft torque (somehow 11lbs/ft more than the Z06?), for a total of 75hp & 76lbs/ft of torque less than the ZL1.

Sure, it's got a 3.91:1 rear axle compared to that of the 3.73:1 in the same manual transmission ZL1, but that's 75hp and lbs/ft of torque less than the ZL1! And what all do I have to give up in order to drive a Z/28?

First I have to pay more. GM sells the LS7 crate motor minus the dry sump for about $17k retail, compared to that of the LSA which retails for just under $14k. Sure, the Z/28 has carbon-ceramic Brembo brakes (not ideal for street use) but come on, the ZL1 still has very stout Brembo brakes, (which per GM's new ZL1 parts counter says the front and rear retail for $9,647 combined!) The Z/28 gets a little larger wheels and tires (which the star pattern looks like they were stolen off a Mustang and are horribly ugly in my humble opinion,) but as far as go-fast components, that's it.

Now I'm one of the LS7's biggest fans and love the hand-built motor in the 3150lbs Corvette Z06, but it's not doing it for me in the Camaro.

On top of that, to own a Z/28 I have to forgo the very useful and functional 3rd generation magnetic ride suspension, HID headlights, a radio, and A/C is optional?! Same goes for the tire-inflator kit, interior sound deadener and carpet in the trunk, smaller LN3 battery, and 2/10's of a mm thinner rear glass (really?)

If I wanted to build a track car, couldn't I do so for a lot less than the $65k to $70k a Z/28 is going to go for? For just a few fractions of a second less in road-course performance figures (not straight line,) I'll take the ZL1 with all the modern, real-world amenities that we have come to almost take for granted such as A/C, premium radio, navigation, etc., and scratch my head every time I see a Z/28 at a car show and say to myself "to each their own!"

Am I wrong here? Am I the only one who sees the new Z/28 and am just not that impressed? For me, the new Z/28 maybe more expensive than the ZL1, but the ZL1 is still King of the Camaro, and I'm fine with that.

If you own a ZL1 I'd say that is a HUGE case of sour grapes. If you don't I'd say you need to educate yourself.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by HeadonaStick

I imagine your question is rhetorical since you have already answered your own question - - it sounds like you wouldn't buy a Z/28 over a ZL1.

I am sure you are not the only one who is not impressed, but many people are impressed. Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I'd rather have the Z/28. It is limited, out of the box ready and I like the sum of the parts. But whatever works for you....

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

I just prefer the better and faster car, which is the ZL1 with stickier Z28 tires.

I can not wait until an online reviewer puts the same rubber on both cars and does a head to head. It's going to be embarrassing for the z28.

I have pulled more than 1G at 110 - 115 mph. Done often, and on the same turn. By myself, with an empty gas tank or with a passanger and a full gas tank. Do you know what is very apparent...The tires are the weak point everytime, the 300lbs of passenger and gas is not felt. I have the same traction limit with or without the 300lbs.

So, give the ZL1 sticky tires, and give us lap times VS the Z28 - Yes, GM, talking to YOU. You gave the Z06 and the Zr1 sticky rubber for better ring times, so lets see what your real King Camaro can do with actual grip, instead of slip.

Putting up the "Fail" emoticon really was wayyyyyy over the top. When your proven wrong will we find you and will you admit it???

I believe I remember you (I may be wrong, but I don't think so) in the Z/28 threads long ago calling those of us foolish for believing there would be a Z/28 5Gen. Was that you?