Why would I want a Z/28 over the ZL1?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

It's odd, yes, but there's no way that wet lap was the best lap recorded or truly indicative of what the car is capable of. In the last third of the lap, the car was obviously a handful because of the conditions.



As opposed to "OMG, blah, blah, blah, the cars have to be absolutely identical otherwise it's not a fair comparison!"? That sounds like hurt pride to me.

So, if we can bump up the ZL1's tires, can we also mod the Z28 to make up for the 70 hp deficit here? Afterall, we're trying to even up the comparison, right? That is what you're trying to accomplish by swapping out the ZL1s tires, correct? Isn't fair to bump up the Z28 to ZL1 power levels then?

Do you see the ridiculous slippery slope you create here when you start modding cars in an attempt to make them equal for comparison sake? They'll never be equal and that's not the point. You can mod anything to be fast. The only true, valid comparison is showroom stock vs showroom stock.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by noah677

IMHO YOU NAILED IT. I absolutely totally agree with you. Lately BM has been making some huge mistakes--at least short term. Add to what u said a c7 with 460HP and u have BM with its pants down. There is no excuse for the Z28. Sure in TWO YEARS u will see some sort of other vette models. I have owned about every vette since 1974 (10++) including the zr1- now that is a VETTE, I love that car and it proves that BM can do it. Therefore there is excuse for the Z28 and current c7. You can flame me BUT YOU DO NOT have much ammo to do so

Uh....uh.....OK nothing to see here please move along.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by noah677

IMHO YOU NAILED IT. I absolutely totally agree with you. Lately BM has been making some huge mistakes--at least short term. Add to what u said a c7 with 460HP and u have BM with its pants down. There is no excuse for the Z28. Sure in TWO YEARS u will see some sort of other vette models. I have owned about every vette since 1974 (10++) including the zr1- now that is a VETTE, I love that car and it proves that BM can do it. Therefore there is excuse for the Z28 and current c7. You can flame me BUT YOU DO NOT have much ammo to do so

So what would you say if GM is right and the Z/28 is capable of 7:31.XX or less?

[NightmareZL1]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Uh....uh.....OK nothing to see here please move along.

All you do is troll on here and post negative useless comments. Your attitude of "it's faster because I think so" just doesn't cut it. Use your obviously giant intellect and post some type of comment with insight or thought. You're a smart guy right?!? I mean, you do have a keyboard, so you must know everything.
All I hear from you is, "GM told me, so it must be true." The poster child for Z28 fanboys is right here, the king even. All hail the King. Okay, you happy now? Go back to the Z28 forum where you are welcome and where your comments are on par, intellectually, with your peers. You are ridiculous. Your opinion is getting less and less valid. And, as far as the post you quoted on the "slippery slope of modding cars" - Tires are not a car mod. Tires are a wear item that you regularly change and especially change when going to a track day. Think about it, one can buy a Z06 with different tires, it is still a Z06. Tires only allow the car to use it's drivetrain suspension, and brakes to the fullest potential. Why are you so afraid of the ZL1 showing it's full potential with proper tires????
Give the Z28 better track tires too, oh wait, you can't because it already has it's track shoes on. Give the ZL1 track shoes too, and then the engineering of the car will be seen.
It is an inarguable fact that the ZL1 has so much more with proper tires.
It is still up for debate whether it can pace the Z28 that is 300lbs lighter.
But, you have no leg to stand on when saying that it is impossible. That is you koolaid talking.

O h yeah, i called it on the 7:37 of the predicted Z28 track times. I said the best it would get would be 3 seconds for the tire advantage. All you Z28 dreamers with you 7:20 times...well, haha. keep dreaming if you think a giant camaro will be faster than a corvette with the same engine.

For the MODS, I never called any one stupid or retarded in this post, so you can't block me. Like you blocked me in the Z28 forum.

[NightmareZL1]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

So what would you say if GM is right and the Z/28 is capable of 7:31.XX or less?

It will NOT be faster than a 3000lb corvette that shares the same motor. impossible.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

It will NOT be faster than a 3000lb corvette that shares the same motor. impossible.

So you think Al O. is lying?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

All you do is troll on here and post negative useless comments. Your attitude of "it's faster because I think so" just doesn't cut it. Use your obviously giant intellect and post some type of comment with insight or thought. You're a smart guy right?!? I mean, you do have a keyboard, so you must know everything.
All I hear from you is, "GM told me, so it must be true." The poster child for Z28 fanboys is right here, the king even. All hail the King. Okay, you happy now? Go back to the Z28 forum where you are welcome and where your comments are on par, intellectually, with your peers. You are ridiculous. Your opinion is getting less and less valid. And, as far as the post you quoted on the "slippery slope of modding cars" - Tires are not a car mod. Tires are a wear item that you regularly change and especially change when going to a track day. Think about it, one can buy a Z06 with different tires, it is still a Z06. Tires only allow the car to use it's drivetrain suspension, and brakes to the fullest potential. Why are you so afraid of the ZL1 showing it's full potential with proper tires????
Give the Z28 better track tires too, oh wait, you can't because it already has it's track shoes on. Give the ZL1 track shoes too, and then the engineering of the car will be seen.
It is an inarguable fact that the ZL1 has so much more with proper tires.
It is still up for debate whether it can pace the Z28 that is 300lbs lighter.
But, you have no leg to stand on when saying that it is impossible. That is you koolaid talking.

O h yeah, i called it on the 7:37 of the predicted Z28 track times. I said the best it would get would be 3 seconds for the tire advantage. All you Z28 dreamers with you 7:20 times...well, haha. keep dreaming if you think a giant camaro will be faster than a corvette with the same engine.

For the MODS, I never called any one stupid or retarded in this post, so you can't block me. Like you blocked me in the Z28 forum.

Weren't you the one banned from the Z/28 forum for trolling?


Since you were, I'll post JusticePetes comments about ZL1 brakes and tires vs Z/28 brakes and tires.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The ZL1 brakes are quite good and can handle by my guestimate about 10 laps before they begin to fade away if the driver is running hard. The inter-cooler is pretty effective, but at some point on track heat soak will become an issue. In a 25 lap event at the Ring the Z/28 brakes will be the same on lap 3 as they are on lap 25 or 50. Why lap 3? CC brakes love heat. Based on brakes alone the Z/28 would win by a significant margin. All LS motors are furnaces. The LS7 should hold more off the baseline HP longer than the LSA in the ZL1.

Add CC brakes and 305 rubber to the ZL1 and the ZL1 gets faster. More from the tires than the brakes. CC brakes on the ZL1 will eliminate brake fade for the longer runs. The ZL1 gains 5 seconds on the Z/28.

Tires. The Z/28 runs Trofeo 305/30/19s. The Z/28 with less nose weight and lighter overall will be easier on tires. The last five laps will be telling. The hotter greasier tires on the ZL1 will slow the ZL1 down. While the ZL1 tires are fading the Z/28 drop off will not be as great. The Z/28 pull away on each of the last five laps for no other reason than tires.

There are other differences. The Z/28 aero creates down force and increases corning speeds. The ZL1 aero is more about preventing lioft than creating down force.

The Z/28 differential is intended for road course work. The ZL1 cast iron diff is tough as nails, but not as good at putting power down in the corners.

Two very competent automobiles. One is a hybrid grand touring / muscle car. The other is a hybrid track / street car. Both are at the top of thier class

[ayousef]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

It will NOT be faster than a 3000lb corvette that shares the same motor. impossible.

actually, it could be, it has much more downforce than a corvette, and I promise it has more HP, notice the tubular tri-y headers, the cold air intake and electoral power steering, all those net additional HP if you ask me. Track specific tires and suspension tuning, shorter rear-end ratio. I won't be surprised if it was quicker than a Z06 around the track but I'm not here to argue either...

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by joeybsyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven59

Two different cars, one a track car the other a drag car. IMO the ZL1 is baddest because it does everything so well and it is the most powerfull.


Unless you're comparing the ZL1 to a GT500 on the drag strip, then it's a track car again.

I was refrring to the COPO not the zl1.


Posted from Camaro5.com App for Android

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

All you do is troll on here and post negative useless comments. Your attitude of "it's faster because I think so" just doesn't cut it. Use your obviously giant intellect and post some type of comment with insight or thought. You're a smart guy right?!? I mean, you do have a keyboard, so you must know everything.
All I hear from you is, "GM told me, so it must be true." The poster child for Z28 fanboys is right here, the king even. All hail the King. Okay, you happy now? Go back to the Z28 forum where you are welcome and where your comments are on par, intellectually, with your peers. You are ridiculous. Your opinion is getting less and less valid. And, as far as the post you quoted on the "slippery slope of modding cars" - Tires are not a car mod. Tires are a wear item that you regularly change and especially change when going to a track day. Think about it, one can buy a Z06 with different tires, it is still a Z06. Tires only allow the car to use it's drivetrain suspension, and brakes to the fullest potential. Why are you so afraid of the ZL1 showing it's full potential with proper tires????
Give the Z28 better track tires too, oh wait, you can't because it already has it's track shoes on. Give the ZL1 track shoes too, and then the engineering of the car will be seen.
It is an inarguable fact that the ZL1 has so much more with proper tires.
It is still up for debate whether it can pace the Z28 that is 300lbs lighter.
But, you have no leg to stand on when saying that it is impossible. That is you koolaid talking.

O h yeah, i called it on the 7:37 of the predicted Z28 track times. I said the best it would get would be 3 seconds for the tire advantage. All you Z28 dreamers with you 7:20 times...well, haha. keep dreaming if you think a giant camaro will be faster than a corvette with the same engine.

For the MODS, I never called any one stupid or retarded in this post, so you can't block me. Like you blocked me in the Z28 forum.

Oh yeah I remember you...

[ayousef]

people seem to forget this certain thing they call POWER TO WEIGHT ratio, also taking into consideration that the Z28 isn't making 505bhp its making more and time will tell when owners start throwing them on dynos, id bet about 500rwhp.

so it might be 10-15hp less than the ZL1 yet 300lbs lighter and have shorter rear-end ratio and higher rev limiter (7100rpm)

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

All you do is troll on here and post negative useless comments. Your attitude of "it's faster because I think so" just doesn't cut it. Use your obviously giant intellect and post some type of comment with insight or thought. You're a smart guy right?!? I mean, you do have a keyboard, so you must know everything.
All I hear from you is, "GM told me, so it must be true." The poster child for Z28 fanboys is right here, the king even. All hail the King. Okay, you happy now? Go back to the Z28 forum where you are welcome and where your comments are on par, intellectually, with your peers. You are ridiculous. Your opinion is getting less and less valid. And, as far as the post you quoted on the "slippery slope of modding cars" - Tires are not a car mod. Tires are a wear item that you regularly change and especially change when going to a track day. Think about it, one can buy a Z06 with different tires, it is still a Z06. Tires only allow the car to use it's drivetrain suspension, and brakes to the fullest potential. Why are you so afraid of the ZL1 showing it's full potential with proper tires????
Give the Z28 better track tires too, oh wait, you can't because it already has it's track shoes on. Give the ZL1 track shoes too, and then the engineering of the car will be seen.
It is an inarguable fact that the ZL1 has so much more with proper tires.
It is still up for debate whether it can pace the Z28 that is 300lbs lighter.
But, you have no leg to stand on when saying that it is impossible. That is you koolaid talking.

O h yeah, i called it on the 7:37 of the predicted Z28 track times. I said the best it would get would be 3 seconds for the tire advantage. All you Z28 dreamers with you 7:20 times...well, haha. keep dreaming if you think a giant camaro will be faster than a corvette with the same engine.

For the MODS, I never called any one stupid or retarded in this post, so you can't block me. Like you blocked me in the Z28 forum.

Yep, someone has hurt feelings.

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by ayousef

people seem to forget this certain thing they call POWER TO WEIGHT ratio, also taking into consideration that the Z28 isn't making 505bhp its making more and time will tell when owners start throwing them on dynos, id bet about 500rwhp.

so it might be 10-15hp less than the ZL1 yet 300lbs lighter and have shorter rear-end ratio and higher rev limiter (7100rpm)

People can cry about the tires all they want to, but...

The fact that a car that at this point is down 70 hp and yet is still faster around a track is damned impressive. That's where your premium over the ZL1 is going to. Carbon ceramic brakes(!), R comps, weight reduction, etc. Pure power is cool and all, but if you can handle better and stop quicker, you're going to be able to make up quite a differential.

Let's face it, how many of you ZL1 owners here have actually tracked your car at a road course to begin with? Why do you even care if the Z28 is faster around some track in Germany that most of you haven't been to nor will you ever go to?

Or in other words, why do you care so much about some metric that's ultimately imaginary to you?

[lbls1]

I don't think that this is a productive debate. The cars are what they are; Just accept it. Both the ZL1 and Z28 are stellar performers and will have a great shot at becoming future automotive legends.

Nothing wrong with either car IMO.