Strategies for Preventing Timing Chain Stretching (Wear): what can we do?

[Car_Almond]

Going to try to dump in a bottle of Lubro Moly LM2009 (MoS2) in a Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30 Camaro. ... Part of me feels like someone should stop me from doing this.... Oh well, here goes nothing...

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Car_Almond

Going to try to dump in a bottle of Lubro Moly LM2009 (MoS2) in a Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30 Camaro. ... Part of me feels like someone should stop me from doing this.... Oh well, here goes nothing...

Problem is, I don't know how you will ever know if it is doing you any good...or any harm.

[Car_Almond]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Problem is, I don't know how you will ever know if it is doing you any good...or any harm.

Exactly the way I feel. Even if I switch to a high-moly oil like Mazda 0w-20 or Scheaffer 5w-30 at the next oil change, I can never be sure if their high-moly strategy is better than say a Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30, or even a German Castrol 0w-30, etc. who don't use moly.

One tribologist posted that he thinks ZDDP won't help chain wear since that antiwear chemical needs extreme pressure like a cam on a follower (roller or bucket). so that leaves moly... maybe

The only way to know is if all the oil companies who wanted to qualify their oil to SN or ACEA standards had to publish the results of their Sequence IVA wear test and the other tests in that suite. Maybe we need a law like that to get the oil companies to allow us to compare products across brands. Full disclosure. I guess I do have the Amsoil study of 4-Ball Wear Tests, yet would like more independent results across the full spectrum of tests run for SN (and GF-5, dexos1, 4718M, etc.) tests.

Why do the oil companies give us marketing crap like "reduces wear and makes engines clean". I mean, compared to what, using canola oil? General useless statements.

[Car_Almond]

I put in half a bottle (half the recommended amount on the instructions) of the German company's Lubro Moly MoS2 from NAPA autoparts. I made sure nobody saw me dump it in there. I wore a fake moustache and big sunglasses to make sure I was not recognized.

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by Car_Almond

ORielly, Kragen, AutoZone, NAPA in your area zip 94134 assumed. WalMart stopped carrying it a few months ago darn it. PepBoys might have it.
pennzoil.com click on pennzoil locations

So I've got 12 quarts of Mobil 1 left and will probably switch to Penzoil Ultra after those two oil changes. The Autozone closest to me now finally carries it . . . .

[TooCool5]

Originally Posted by Car_Almond

I put in half a bottle (half the recommended amount on the instructions) of the German company's Lubro Moly MoS2 from NAPA autoparts. I made sure nobody saw me dump it in there. I wore a fake moustache and big sunglasses to make sure I was not recognized.

Just a caution on your idea to engine flush. Once you do that you wash all the lubricants built up in the cylinder walls and bearings voiding any good your additive is suppose to do.

[Car_Almond]

Originally Posted by TooCool5

Just a caution on your idea to engine flush. Once you do that you wash all the lubricants built up in the cylinder walls and bearings voiding any good your additive is suppose to do.

Hard to say what an engine flush, 5 minutes of idling with 1 quart of special solvent, would wash off thats not oil-based. It appears the engine flush really just dissolves petroleum based goop inside the engine, not moly that much. Besides, if one commits to moly, one puts new additive in at every oil change.

Thats not to say a moly additive is really the answer. Jury is out on that one until someone shows us all proof. We need a taxi fleet test, one group using moly additive dumped in, the other group not, same oil change intervals, multiple vehicles to average out all variables, you know the drill....

[Car_Almond]

Note the forum name "lonestar" on this Bob Is The Oil Guy (not for the tech-squeamish LOL ) thread: Link to thread
When i started that thread, I didn't know what kind of trouble I might stir up from cranky members there. Most responses expanded my insight, and I do like to get all geeky-technical with understanding the underlying wear mechanisms here.

[TooCool5]

Originally Posted by Car_Almond

Hard to say what an engine flush, 5 minutes of idling with 1 quart of special solvent, would wash off thats not oil-based. It appears the engine flush really just dissolves petroleum based goop inside the engine, not moly that much. Besides, if one commits to moly, one puts new additive in at every oil change.

Thats not to say a moly additive is really the answer. Jury is out on that one until someone shows us all proof. We need a taxi fleet test, one group using moly additive dumped in, the other group not, same oil change intervals, multiple vehicles to average out all variables, you know the drill....

Like I said we tested all lubricants , molly, synthetic or otherwise, nothing could touch PTFE /Teflon for wear control.
Don't believe everything you read on the web.

[Car_Almond]

Originally Posted by TooCool5

Like I said we tested all lubricants , molly, synthetic or otherwise, nothing could touch PTFE /Teflon for wear control.
Don't believe everything you read on the web.

I won't put any PTFE additives in my cars simply because they have a reputation for gumming up rings. I do agree if it weren't for that, it has the potential to get the timing chain and cams reduced wear.

In fact I'm really considering changing the oil filter early after putting in a 1/2 dose of Lubro Moly MoS2, as some have reported a portion gets stuck in the oil filter. And then theres the same rings issue as with PTFE. Caution is wise here.

And why have the major motor oil makers not been using PTFE? Only 2 oils I know of have very-high moly (Mazda 0w-20 600 ppm and Scheaffer 5w-30 300 ppm, ...but almost all the major oil makers like to blend a small amout of moly, 80 ppm, with boron and ZDDP, which may be the right mix. No PTFE. Actually, maybe a little blended in an additive package might make a difference, we don't "know". ... It reminds me of when Pennzoil used to put a small amount of Pennzane (a spacecraft gyro lube) Web Link... in their synthetic oil 12 years ago. (I was working at Lockheed-Martin at the time doing spacecraft probe control systems work and had a brief conversation with a JPL engineer about it.) Pennzoil stopped using it had some point we think, although it might still be used as a "secret ingredient" added to Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra synthetic oils as far as we know.

[Car_Almond]

An interesting fact to be revealed from the techie-geek discussion at LLT V6 Timing chain wear web link ...was the fact that in the future, a special timing chain ASTM standardized test will be added to the GF-6 test suite (GF-5 does not have it). In the future, all oil having a GF-6 rating will have had to pass this performance test.

[MagnumForceGB]

Does anybody know if its the mileage or cold starts that affect the timing chains more?

[philthy]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

Does anybody know if its the mileage or cold starts that affect the timing chains more?

I doubt it is mileage related. According to my research cases of chain replacements have been all over the map. Both my wife's Traverse and my Camaro chains were replaced under warranty at around the 36,000 to 38,000 mile mark.

She relies on the OLM to tell her when to change the oil (lease vehicle.) I change mine in the Camaro at around 3000 miles since I own it and plan to keep the car for a while.

[PieNsky]

I don't recall the mileage, ballpark for me was 117-119,000 . A little over half were with full synthetic . The rest with traditional oil changed when the DIC algorithm indicated it to be changed. Most of my miles were of an hours drive on the interstate . Haven't a clue why mine lasted so long. I suspect short drives hasten the stretch, along with low oil.