New video... Z/28 vs Mustang Boss 302

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by 97SS

I own a 97 SS, and at that time. The SS was the big dog that Chevy offered, since they teamed up with SLP. Outside of the V6, the Z/28 was base V8 F-body (nothing spectacular).

Today, (outside of the V6) The SS is the bottom of the line, then the ZL1, and now the Z/28 is the big dog? Chevy needs to get there product lines in order. Because these comparisons are really embarrassing to us Chevy fans, on comparing apples to apples.

The current gen of Camaros match the first gen of Camaros in terms of trimlines. The RS was the pedestrian model, the SS was the higher performance car, and the Z28 was the "race-ready" model of the V8. Later in the first gen, elements of the RS package could be added to the SS and the Z28, similar to what they do today with the SS/RS.

As far as the Z28 and ZL1 are concerned - I look at them as equals. The Z28 is the balls to wall, track star of the family while the ZL1 is the brutishly strong, more refined car. Sort of what the 911 Turbo is to the GT3(Z28). I don't necessarily think the Z28 is the top dog now that it's newer, more expensive or faster around the 'ring.

[2012 Mustang GT]

Originally Posted by trademaster

Which car are you talking about having those parts, the Boss or the Z?

I would be interested to see Z/28 vs GT350 when it comes out in about 6 months. That will be interesting.

If these cars get smaller and lighter as planned I may end up shifting track duty to a 6th gen Z/28.

No more GT350...going back to SVT Cobra.
Results don't surprise me. IRS, more power and better brakes and tires. Z/28 should beat them all around the track. Good for GM keep it coming

[2012 Mustang GT]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

While GM won't do it, I would like to see what a GT500 would do with just a brake fluid change and a wheel/tire swap.

600RWHP and those crappy 285 tires must have been an handful...

GM shouldn't have to. Ford built it with that....they could've changed things to fit better tires and offer brake cooling ducts etc. GM wins the turns, Ford wins the 1/4mi. Still 2 pretty good values for the $

[90503]

It seemed an ok marketing bit for the Z/28....If that Boss was the fastest Mustang at Laguna Seca, (as he stated in the video) , then fair game I'd say to stir up some interest to see how well the Z/28 will do at that track....

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by 97SS

I have to say the comparisons that GM/Chevy chasing the outdated Mustang chassis (live rear axle), leaves me to be an embarrassed Chevy Camaro owner.

I think you'll find GM's REAL target is way beyond a mere Mustang, and the 'Ring times prove they've succeeded. Oh yeah, what Mustang 'Ring times?!

Why they are comparing a 2014 (not even released) Z/28, to a 2012 Boss 302 Laguna Seca. A car that hasn't been in production for over 6-7 mos. now. amazes me.

Having a little fun, comparing the Z/28 to what is/was available (BOSS LS and GT 500) from their cross-town rivals. Which they again succeeded in doing.

Watching the video from SVT and Dave Pericaks Videos on the remake of legendary Boss 302. Never did I hear either of them mention Camaro or any GM/Chevorlet products in comparison.

You must have missed Carroll Shelby's specific boasts, at Sebring, regarding the GT 500. Is it fine for "legends" to name-call, but not others? Fair ball, I'd say.

I have to give it to Ford, in keeping the history with there car. Sure, at one point and time (mid 70's) during the gas crisis, the mustang went into a different direction.

Which turned out to be sheer genius as far as sales were concerned.

But looking at there retro models. They have really set bar (imo), while keeping the history alive and true to its original. They wouldnt make the Boss unless they got the 302 5.0 back. Just like the original, and a high revving specially built motor for the 2012-13 Boss 302 Engines were a real eye opener, and they really did an amazing job on that car. From its suspension, to its Recaro seats, to its special Boss 302 engine. Then when they came out with the 2013 Shelby, for the straight line drag guys. The SVT team really impressed me again. The car runs close to mid 11's stock!

The present Mustang chassis, in it's current iteration, has the benefit of fully 10 Model Years of development: 1) Lots of money earned for upgrades; 2) You would hope Ford would want to fully develop their now-only enthusiast-sought platform. And they did. Kudos to them for fulfilling their customers' wishes. Smart business.

While watching Motor Trends interview with Al, and he stated his "Boss" gave him the exact orders of making a Camaro that is better then any car Ford offers. Personally, I think they are a little late to the game.

5 Model Years of development, vs. 10 for Ford, limits their timing for developmental upgrades, no? In HALF the time, they've finally managed to MATCH each version of Ford. Which makes them VERY serious about satisfying THEIR customers, while challenging others to pick up their games as well, makes ALL breeds better, no?

I just wish Chevy would stay true with the models they come out with. I love that the new Z/28 is a naturally aspirated car, and finally they put the pig on a diet, and gave decent seats (Recaros). However, it would have been really cool to see Chevy stick to there routes of the original Z/28 (like Ford did) and put the 302 in it, instead of the 427. Again, a 427 powered Z/28, 505 hp, 305 sized R compound tires against Fords 302, live rear axle, out of production car - does not impress one bit. Especially the price tag to be on this Z/28 which will be higher then the ZL1.

Putting a torqueless 302 in a near-4,000 lb. car would NOT have created the dynamics required for a Z/28 to live up to its TRUE heritage, created in Gen-1. Debated on this site, long ago, before your arrival, possibly. Search is your friend. NOT found on the svt site.

And using the word "pig" shows your true intent, here. Say "Hey!" to your banned buddies when you see them next, especially your "quoted" pal RonParsons.

I own a 97 SS, and at that time. The SS was the big dog that Chevy offered, since they teamed up with SLP. Outside of the V6, the Z/28 was base V8 F-body (nothing spectacular).

Times change. So do allegences. Today, a base V8 Mustang is known as a GT. Is Ford wrong to use that?

Today, (outside of the V6) The SS is the bottom of the line (LIKE A MUSTANG GT), then the ZL1 (GT 500), and now the Z/28 is the big dog (as far as track times, just like the BOSS 302 LS) ? Chevy needs to get there product lines in order. Because these comparisons are really embarrassing to us Chevy fans, on comparing apples to apples.

V8 Camaro to V8 Mustang, 2014

SS = GT, "bottom of the line" to use your analogy

1LE = GT w/Track Pack

ZL1 = GT500

Z/28 = anything, on a road course, Mustang has produced including the BOSS and the BOSS LS. Even the 1LE @ under $38K matches the BOSSes. After a 7 year penalty box sit. Ask your Ford friends, of whom you have many, if the current 662 hp GT 500 would factory-exist were it not for the ZL1. We ALL know that answer, unlike the slanted/untrue/no-worse-than-Ford commentary you shared, above.

And why was the BOSS conveniently discontinued for '14?! I'm sure your Ford friends can NOW figure that one out.

Thanks for your sporadic contributions over the last 18 months, of which the vast majority have been spent supporting Ford while futilely trying to derail earned Camaro momentum. We look forward to your thoughts when you return in another 4 weeks. Duly noted.

[Mikamaro]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

[B][U]
And why was the BOSS conveniently discontinued for '14?! I'm sure your Ford friends can NOW figure that one out.

Thanks for your sporadic contributions over the last 18 months, of which the vast majority have been spent supporting Ford while futilely trying to derail earned Camaro momentum. We look forward to your thoughts when you return in another 4 weeks. Duly noted.

SEVEN-OH JOE you rock!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

And why was the BOSS conveniently discontinued for '14?! I'm sure your Ford friends can NOW figure that one out.

.

Because when it was introduced in 2012 they said it was going to be a two year run only, Just like the BULLITT in 08 and 09, and the Mach 1 in 03/04. Ford does a special edition mustang for two years towards end of the cycle.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Which leaves them with no direct competitor. I'll bet the midnite oil is burning while they hustle a Gen-6 replacement to market. A base GT won't cut it, and latest rumors seem to indicate the "halo" version may not appear until about the same time the Gen-6 Camaro launches.

Still, it is a disappointment that Ford would leave its customers in the lurch at this exciting, defining moment in automotive history. Kind of goes against the pro-Ford folks. For no really good reason.

The great thing about the Gen-5 Z/28: It will be THE benchmark, not only for others in Detroit (including the Gen-6 Z/28), but for other brands falling short of actual on-track performance. Blood, sweat, toil and tears will ensue, for all.

Count on it.

[fhpchris]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

While GM won't do it, I would like to see what a GT500 would do with just a brake fluid change and a wheel/tire swap.

600RWHP and those crappy 285 tires must have been an handful...

It is not like the Goodyear F1s are amazing tires either...

Hell, my friends drive around on A6s sometimes when they are too lazy to take them off after an autox if they are just driving around town.

[trademaster]

The Boss was always going to be around for only two years. That was established long before the Z/28 was around. . .

[joelster]

They could have included a 2013 1LE into the comparison. Pick a stripper 1LE, 1SS with NPP, and that's it. Watch it beat up on the BOSS Laguna, and then have guys like 97SS have nothing to complain about. Yeah the $65k Z-28 beat the crap out of the BOSS Laguna by 5 seconds a lap.

But the $36k 1LE beats the Laguna as well. Not by as much as the Z-28, but it does beat it, and does it at a savings of roughly $9k. I was in the market for a BOSS, but the pricing on them was retarded, unless you were ok with yellow, lol.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

Z/28 = anything, on a road course, Mustang has produced including the BOSS and the BOSS LS. Even the 1LE @ under $38K matches the BOSSes. After a 7 year penalty box sit. Ask your Ford friends, of whom you have many, if the current 662 hp GT 500 would factory-exist were it not for the ZL1. We ALL know that answer, unlike the slanted/untrue/no-worse-than-Ford commentary you shared, above.

And why was the BOSS conveniently discontinued for '14?! I'm sure your Ford friends can NOW figure that one out.

Thanks for your sporadic contributions over the last 18 months, of which the vast majority have been spent supporting Ford while futilely trying to derail earned Camaro momentum. We look forward to your thoughts when you return in another 4 weeks. Duly noted.

The '13 GT500 was well under construction before anything concrete was released on the ZL281.

I'm not arguing that the return of the Camaro in its fifth generation model didn't force Ford to up the game on their base Mustangs and GTs, but in all reality, the GT500 had been around since the 2007 model.

As far as Ford letting their customer base down upon the release of the new model, which is very likely their course of action, it isn't really that shocking. After the initial excitement of the 300hp 4.6 in 2005, there was pretty much nothing that year and the next that was worth shaking a stick at. Honestly, I think Ford was enjoying the explosive sales and basking in the 'retro glory' that they weren't too concerned with making anything faster upon the immediate release of the model.

We'll see what happens for 2015. Probably just a GT with a track pack that is more than capable of sticking it to a 1LE (sort of aiming backwards, but I think there are plenty of debates internet wide that would make the case that's normal...) which I think would be a good starting place for a GT.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

The '13 GT500 was well under construction before anything concrete was released on the ZL1.

Worst kept "secret" in the history of cars was the fact the Z28 cum ZL1 would enjoy the LSA engine. SLP had already been doing their field testing for them. So, again, whatever lead time Mustang needed/wanted/enjoyed, they had a by-then 7 Model Year head start. "Gee, they're gonna bring 7.07 lb/hp, why don't we drop below 6.00? With our ancient architecture handicaps, that oughta be enough of a head start to beat 'em! And we'll announce the POWER when they announce their CAR!!!" That Jamal is a WIZARD!

And you Ford folks wonder why Al enjoys this moment?!

I'm not arguing that the return of the Camaro in its fifth generation model didn't force Ford to up the game on their base Mustangs and GTs, but in all reality, the GT500 had been around since the 2007 model.

In a nose-heavy iron-blocked smoke-show version. Quite a wonder, no?

As far as Ford letting their customer base down upon the release of the new model, which is very likely their course of action, it isn't really that shocking. After the initial excitement of the 300hp 4.6 in 2005, there was pretty much nothing that year and the next that was worth shaking a stick at. Honestly, I think Ford was enjoying the explosive sales and basking in the 'retro glory' that they weren't too concerned with making anything faster upon the immediate release of the model.

They have a 17 month head start on GM, this time. No time to lolly-gag the improvements. GM WILL have a new-Gen answer for the Z/28 that Ford better work feverishly on matching.

We'll see what happens for 2015. Probably just a GT with a track pack (option, no doubt) that is more than capable of sticking it to a 1LE (sort of aiming backwards, but I think there are plenty of debates internet wide that would make the case that's normal...) which I think would be a good starting place for a GT.

They have a year-and-a-half head start. Jamal better not plan an extended vacation. And just like he reverse-engineered an SLP ZL585 in '09, I'm sure he's sweatin' the small stuff over an ATS as we speak. If not sooner.

[backtotintops]

moved