New OnStar capability: Remote Engine Block

[BackinBlack]

If you want to disable or remove your OnStar box:

All the brains related to the OnStar operations are housed in a single unit. The GPS processor is there, the system microprocessor is there, and the CDMA modem is there. Get rid of this box and you get rid of Onstar.

Of course you will lose lots of other features in the process but, hey, your paranoia does not come without sacrifice, right? Also do not tell your insurance company you did this because they will remove some of the discounts you get for simply having the Onstar safety and anti-theft functionality in the car.

For those interested:
Anything the OnStar unit does (unlock doors, send Navigation directions, disable ignition, detect airbags being deployed) it does by way of the proprietary Control Area Network or CAN bus. All the electronics modules in the car can talk to each other if they are on this bus (not all modules are). So the Onstar box sends some communication on this bus that the PTC recognizes are for intended for it, and there is probably some code in the PTC that executes the ignition kill once it receives that message. If the code was written to do it (maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I don't know), they could shut off the engine literally anytime.

A theory as to why they do it the way they do:
What happens in the middle of a high speed chase where the Camaro suddenly is commanded by Onstar (who can be commanded by the authorites) to kill the engine and it loses Power Steering and Power Brakes? A crash. If people get hurt you have a lawsuit on the city/state and on OnStar. So this is likely why they do this 10% throttle or 'next time the ignition is turned off' intervention. Its a smarter, safer solution to the problem of a speeding car thief or evading criminal.

I happen to love the Onstar functionality and can tell you that beginning in MY2010 many Chryslers will have a similar capability, called the PASS, and within a few years all Chryslers will have it.

Ford is expanding SYNC to be closer to what Onstar is, although they are implementing the features differently.

Import car manufacturers are bringing the same tech into their vehicles as well.

The point being if you are afraid of this technology & plan on buying a new car in the next few years you will have to deal with it.

[brandotron]

Originally Posted by fastball

I am currious, can OnStar slow the car down remotely? I don't think they should be able to complete stop a car if it is moving at 70 mph it could be dangerous to other people on the road, but at least make it slow to a crawl of like, 10 mph......

OR, sense when the car has come to a complete stop (say at a stop sign), and THEN kill the engine?

They can slow it down remotely. In that case, OnStar will work with the police in pursuit and slow the vehicle down when the police verify that it is safe to do so. I believe they drop it down to 9mph.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by DDustiNN

Wow, I can't believe some of you are actually wanting to disable this feature... This is incredible, and is one of the main reasons I will be renewing my OnStar after the first year (not to mention the emergency services part was incredibly helpful in my accident).

Stop being so paranoid... OnStar is a great service, not a freaking government conspiracy...

"OMG, that guy voted Republican! Turn off his car!"

Please.

Palm your face all you like. If you don't think it's creepy having somebody you don't know tracking your every movement and being able to shutdown your car at their whim... well all I can say is I have no desire to be a lobster in the pot.

It seems like a good idea now, but government always abuses power if given the chance and the potential for future abuse of this "feature" is incredible. O had no authority to tell a private sector CEO to leave his job but he did and got away with it. He'll keep testing the limits of what he can get away with to find out how far he can go. They are literally passing laws without reading them right now; we have no idea what they've put into law.

Oregon politicians want to pass a law taxing you for every mile you travel in the state and guess how it's tracked... yep, through MANDATORY gps in your car. And if they can track how many miles, they can also track how long it took and calculate your speed...automatic speeding tickets, no need for a cop to write you one. Don't want to pay? Want to protest? With something like Onstar they can just disable your car and if you try to prevent that, you can be arrested. Remember if it's a matter of law enforcement, companies and services have to cooperate. And if they've shut down your car, there would be a mandatory "reactivation fee" too. State politicians are trying to come up with every possible way they can think of to generate revenue so don't for a minute believe they won't use this type of technology. Oh but they're breaking the law! Yes it's always easy to justify power and control when you wrap your motives in "concern" for the law and "safety" of others. Therein lies the path to tyranny when people are willing to let others take care of the responsibility for their lives instead of doing it themselves.

Think that's all that can be done with this technology? You know how lobsters are cooked don't you? Pay attention before the water gets to the boiling point and you're cooked. By the time you realize what's happened it will be too late. Freedom requires vigilance against the potential for tyranny. Between gps in phones and cars, it won't be long before technology has the power to track and monitor in real-time your every movement. Oh it will all be done under the guise of "security and safety" but it will be an Orwellian nightmare because as always the wrong kind of people are drawn to that kind of power like moths to a flame.

Read the papers in the U.K. if you want to see where this kind of system is heading; they've already begun.

[DDustiNN]

Originally Posted by Doc

Palm your face all you like. If you don't think it's creepy having somebody you don't know tracking your every movement and being able to shutdown your car at their whim... well all I can say is I have no desire to be a lobster in the pot.

It seems like a good idea now, but government always abuses power if given the chance and the potential for future abuse of this "feature" is incredible. O had no authority to tell a private sector CEO to leave his job but he did and got away with it. He'll keep testing the limits of what he can get away with to find out how far he can go. They are literally passing laws without reading them right now; we have no idea what they've put into law.

Oregon politicians want to pass a law taxing you for every mile you travel in the state and guess how it's tracked... yep, through MANDATORY gps in your car. And if they can track how many miles, they can also track how long it took and calculate your speed...automatic speeding tickets, no need for a cop to write you one. Don't want to pay? Want to protest? With something like Onstar they can just disable your car and if you try to prevent that, you can be arrested. Remember if it's a matter of law enforcement, companies and services have to cooperate. And if they've shut down your car, there would be a mandatory "reactivation fee" too. State politicians are trying to come up with every possible way they can think of to generate revenue so don't for a minute believe they won't use this type of technology. Oh but they're breaking the law! Yes it's always easy to justify power and control when you wrap your motives in "concern" for the law and "safety" of others. Therein lies the path to tyranny when people are willing to let others take care of the responsibility for their lives instead of doing it themselves.

Think that's all that can be done with this technology? You know how lobsters are cooked don't you? Pay attention before the water gets to the boiling point and you're cooked. By the time you realize what's happened it will be too late. Freedom requires vigilance against the potential for tyranny. Between gps in phones and cars, it won't be long before technology has the power to track and monitor in real-time your every movement. Oh it will all be done under the guise of "security and safety" but it will be an Orwellian nightmare because as always the wrong kind of people are drawn to that kind of power like moths to a flame.

Read the papers in the U.K. if you want to see where this kind of system is heading; they've already begun.

I think you must've watched Eagle Eye just a few too many times... your paranoia is very extreme. Usually the people who are the most paranoid are the people who are doing stuff they shouldn't be, and they're just worried about getting caught.

So you think there are enough resources to track every movement of every single person? And you are against the idea of people violating traffic laws? What would be the difference if a cop caught you speeding, vs someone finidng out that you did? Either way, you were speeding... you were knowingly doing something that you shouldn't be doing. But then... how many times has someone zipped by you going 100 mph, or ran a red light or something, and you thought to yourself "man, where are the cops when you need them?"

And then to top it off you're worried about not paying the ticket, and "them" shutting off your car... well guess what? Do you know what happens when you don't pay your electricity/heat bill? That's right... it gets shut off. No service. Why would that be any different?

If you don't like it, you sure are living in the wrong country. And if you decide to leave, please take Michael Moore with you. kthx.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by BackinBlack

If you want to disable or remove your OnStar box:

All the brains related to the OnStar operations are housed in a single unit. The GPS processor is there, the system microprocessor is there, and the CDMA modem is there. Get rid of this box and you get rid of Onstar.

Of course you will lose lots of other features in the process but, hey, your paranoia does not come without sacrifice, right? Also do not tell your insurance company you did this because they will remove some of the discounts you get for simply having the Onstar safety and anti-theft functionality in the car.

For those interested:
Anything the OnStar unit does (unlock doors, send Navigation directions, disable ignition, detect airbags being deployed) it does by way of the proprietary Control Area Network or CAN bus. All the electronics modules in the car can talk to each other if they are on this bus (not all modules are). So the Onstar box sends some communication on this bus that the PTC recognizes are for intended for it, and there is probably some code in the PTC that executes the ignition kill once it receives that message. If the code was written to do it (maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I don't know), they could shut off the engine literally anytime.

A theory as to why they do it the way they do:
What happens in the middle of a high speed chase where the Camaro suddenly is commanded by Onstar (who can be commanded by the authorites) to kill the engine and it loses Power Steering and Power Brakes? A crash. If people get hurt you have a lawsuit on the city/state and on OnStar. So this is likely why they do this 10% throttle or 'next time the ignition is turned off' intervention. Its a smarter, safer solution to the problem of a speeding car thief or evading criminal.

I happen to love the Onstar functionality and can tell you that beginning in MY2010 many Chryslers will have a similar capability, called the PASS, and within a few years all Chryslers will have it.

Ford is expanding SYNC to be closer to what Onstar is, although they are implementing the features differently.

Import car manufacturers are bringing the same tech into their vehicles as well.

The point being if you are afraid of this technology & plan on buying a new car in the next few years you will have to deal with it.

Thank you for that info. Yes as you've indicated, this is coming and as soon as it's in common use, get ready for the "new" laws for mileage tax, "carbon footprint" tax for using your car, registration, ticketing, etc. You won't have a choice then. You'll remember these warnings once you recognize we've reached that point, but by then it will be too late. Then you'll talk about the "good old days" when you had freedom of movement.

Soon you won't be able to disable these systems; it will be illegal and you could probably be arrested and/or fined for merely talking about it or posting the info on how to do it. Imagine an organization like the RIAA policing and hunting down the "criminals" who dare to want to be free. If they'll do it for downloading music because that "robs" them of revenue, imagine the zealous and righteous fervor of petty government bureaucrats pursing "violators" for "robbing" politicians of revenue.

If you don't believe this can happen, you need to read up on the history of how Stalin, Hitler and Castro took over. And read up on what Chavez is doing right now in Venezuela. Imagine if people like that had this kind of power and control. Once this kind of system is in place, imagine what kind of people are going to become obsessed with "taking over" and using it. In and of itself it's fine; it's the amount of power this offers that is the problem... it will just be too tempting to the wrong kind of people.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by DDustiNN

I think you must've watched Eagle Eye just a few too many times... your paranoia is very extreme. Usually the people who are the most paranoid are the people who are doing stuff they shouldn't be, and they're just worried about getting caught.

So you think there are enough resources to track every movement of every single person? And you are against the idea of people violating traffic laws? What would be the difference if a cop caught you speeding, vs someone finidng out that you did? Either way, you were speeding... you were knowingly doing something that you shouldn't be doing. But then... how many times has someone zipped by you going 100 mph, or ran a red light or something, and you thought to yourself "man, where are the cops when you need them?"

And then to top it off you're worried about not paying the ticket, and "them" shutting off your car... well guess what? Do you know what happens when you don't pay your electricity/heat bill? That's right... it gets shut off. No service. Why would that be any different?

If you don't like it, you sure are living in the wrong country. And if you decide to leave, please take Michael Moore with you. kthx.

I can see someone like you easily being one of the self-righteous enforcers lol. Not hard to imagine.

It's only paranoia if it's extremely unlikely to be true. In this case it may already be unstoppable.

I've never seen Eagle Eye, I never saw Minority Report either. Don't need to in order to see where things have been or where they can go.

"They" may not have the resources at this moment to track everyone in real-time but they're probably pretty close; just need the capacity of the system upgraded to handle the bandwidth. That's underway already. Computing power is probably already there; memory capacities are either there already or getting close. GPS systems are rapidly being put in place. It will be a few more years but not many before the infrastructure is in place for all this. If you think governments are going to let power like that just sit there... lol, you know nothing of the nature of politicians. Never underestimate their greed.

[2010SLVRBULIT]

Maybe a remote trigger for C4 hidden in the car. Once the thief's in the car..kaBOOOM!
No worries about overcrowding in prison, and insurance will get you a new car...
Eventually, the piles of burned metal will be cleaned up by the city..

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Doc

....
It seems like a good idea now, but government always abuses power if given the chance and the potential for future abuse of this "feature" is incredible. O had no authority to tell a private sector CEO to leave his job but he did and got away with it. He'll keep testing the limits of what he can get away with to find out how far he can go. They are literally passing laws without reading them right now; we have no idea what they've put into law.

......

I just wanted to take this whole arguement to task an this statement here makes a perfect example. Let me preface this with I am a Republican through and through and have no love for O whatsoever.

That said these things always take the situation so far out of context. Yes he did pull a private sector CEO out, it was a condition of giving them a WHOLE LOAD of money. Guess what, when private firms want to invest in other firms (which is EXACTLY what the US Gov't did with GM) they often request management changes. It just doesn't end up on the front page. This is how business works, and investing in GM with the intent to be paid back gives the Gov't or a private company every right to request whatever they want. As a Republican this is the only way I could ever accept a bailout of this kind, and exactly how it managed to pass. Its called Capitalism, and if the Government has an opportunity to make money without taxing us more they better damn well take it.

So then this is used to show how the Gov will do whatever they want. Do you realize this is the reason for all the lower levels of Government. The kind of stuff you talk about is police state kind of stuff which will NEVER get past the lobyists. If you have any idea of the innerworkings of Government, of course there is greed, but the magnitude of what would be involved is enormous. You realize this technology has been out for many years, if they were gonna screw the public and make money or chain everyone down with it, they would have already....

Do you need to be careful and weary? Youd be stupid not to, but everyone is not out to get you, you are merely a number in a sea of billions. They are never going to track your every move, they have bigger fish to fry.

PS toss your cellphone, no fancy car needed, they can track that too.

[TheClassicCarKid]

if you see someone trying to steal your car, is it legal to shoot them?

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid

if you see someone trying to steal your car, is it legal to shoot them?

I think only in Texas. Prettymuch anywhere else it is illegal to use deadly force to protect personal property. Which is why after you shoot him you should put a gun or knife in his hand.

[BackinBlack]

Doc, sorry man but I can't read your posts with any kind of seriousness. I guess you should do what it is that you do, and I'll do what it is that I do, and we don't have to talk about this anymore. Enjoy your Camaro.

[DDustiNN]

Originally Posted by Doc

Thank you for that info. Yes as you've indicated, this is coming and as soon as it's in common use, get ready for the "new" laws for mileage tax, "carbon footprint" tax for using your car, registration, ticketing, etc. You won't have a choice then. You'll remember these warnings once you recognize we've reached that point, but by then it will be too late. Then you'll talk about the "good old days" when you had freedom of movement.

Soon you won't be able to disable these systems; it will be illegal and you could probably be arrested and/or fined for merely talking about it or posting the info on how to do it. Imagine an organization like the RIAA policing and hunting down the "criminals" who dare to want to be free. If they'll do it for downloading music because that "robs" them of revenue, imagine the zealous and righteous fervor of petty government bureaucrats pursing "violators" for "robbing" politicians of revenue.

If you don't believe this can happen, you need to read up on the history of how Stalin, Hitler and Castro took over. And read up on what Chavez is doing right now in Venezuela. Imagine if people like that had this kind of power and control. Once this kind of system is in place, imagine what kind of people are going to become obsessed with "taking over" and using it. In and of itself it's fine; it's the amount of power this offers that is the problem... it will just be too tempting to the wrong kind of people.

Originally Posted by Doc

I can see someone like you easily being one of the self-righteous enforcers lol. Not hard to imagine.

It's only paranoia if it's extremely unlikely to be true. In this case it may already be unstoppable.

I've never seen Eagle Eye, I never saw Minority Report either. Don't need to in order to see where things have been or where they can go.

"They" may not have the resources at this moment to track everyone in real-time but they're probably pretty close; just need the capacity of the system upgraded to handle the bandwidth. That's underway already. Computing power is probably already there; memory capacities are either there already or getting close. GPS systems are rapidly being put in place. It will be a few more years but not many before the infrastructure is in place for all this. If you think governments are going to let power like that just sit there... lol, you know nothing of the nature of politicians. Never underestimate their greed.

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I just wanted to take this whole arguement to task an this statement here makes a perfect example. Let me preface this with I am a Republican through and through and have no love for O whatsoever.

That said these things always take the situation so far out of context. Yes he did pull a private sector CEO out, it was a condition of giving them a WHOLE LOAD of money. Guess what, when private firms want to invest in other firms (which is EXACTLY what the US Gov't did with GM) they often request management changes. It just doesn't end up on the front page. This is how business works, and investing in GM with the intent to be paid back gives the Gov't or a private company every right to request whatever they want. As a Republican this is the only way I could ever accept a bailout of this kind, and exactly how it managed to pass. Its called Capitalism, and if the Government has an opportunity to make money without taxing us more they better damn well take it.

So then this is used to show how the Gov will do whatever they want. Do you realize this is the reason for all the lower levels of Government. The kind of stuff you talk about is police state kind of stuff which will NEVER get past the lobyists. If you have any idea of the innerworkings of Government, of course there is greed, but the magnitude of what would be involved is enormous. You realize this technology has been out for many years, if they were gonna screw the public and make money or chain everyone down with it, they would have already....

Do you need to be careful and weary? Youd be stupid not to, but everyone is not out to get you, you are merely a number in a sea of billions. They are never going to track your every move, they have bigger fish to fry.

PS toss your cellphone, no fancy car needed, they can track that too.

Originally Posted by BackinBlack

Doc, sorry man but I can't read your posts with any kind of seriousness. I guess you should do what it is that you do, and I'll do what it is that I do, and we don't have to talk about this anymore. Enjoy your Camaro.

[broncosman]

honestly who cares if they have all that power and might possibly abuse it.. the world is going to end in 2012 anyways


no i don't want the world to end. i want to enjoy my Camaro forever!!!

[kingsnorky]

Originally Posted by DDustiNN

Wow, I can't believe some of you are actually wanting to disable this feature... This is incredible, and is one of the main reasons I will be renewing my OnStar after the first year (not to mention the emergency services part was incredibly helpful in my accident).

Stop being so paranoid... OnStar is a great service, not a freaking government conspiracy...

"OMG, that guy voted Republican! Turn off his car!"

Please.

+1