2013 GT500 laps the ring quicker then ZL1

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Those "unnecessary options" as you call them, are the only reason the GT500 is even in the vicinity of the ZL1 on a road course. That's why Ford sent the $64,000 version to magazines for testing. It can't compete on a road course without them.

I find dollar/hp about as meaningless as hp/L in evaluating a car's performance. There are simply too many other factors that determine a cars performance than raw HP.

Take the 1LE for example. It finished the 2013 Lightning Lap 0.9 seconds behind the GT500 on a 4.1 mile road course. They weigh the same yet the GT500 has 236HP advantage on the 1LE. What does all that extra power accomplish? 0.9 seconds on a 4.1 mile track. Oh, and the 1LE cost $37,000. Like I said the GT500 is a tremendous engine. If only Ford had a decent chassis to put it in.

You will see this in December.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by ZL1-V

Which makes me wonder in your statement which "pro drivers" stated this? Names of them? The reason I ask is ask most "pro drivers" would not want to wrestle an unruly car around all day? Maybe you are referencing Randy Pobst? I believe the Mustang requires more steering input because of the live axle. I know my Mustang did on the Streets of Willow. The only PTM mode I use on my ZL1 is the wet setting when the road is damp.

Hi, Randy Pobst is the only name I can remember and I give my magazines away after reading them, so I asked my old fart husband if he knew any of the drivers names to which he replied "I can't remember what I was doing five minutes ago, how the heck would I remember some guys name" and then just started laughing. Not much help, I know. But I don't think they were talking about picking the Mustang strictly for the track. I remember one guy stating that's its just a beast of a machine traffic light to traffic light. So I think he just loved the way it could put the power down. Everyday driving isn't going to be an all out workout, you just have to be on your top game at all times. Personally the ZL1 is more than I can handle. Love to just once in my life get to drive around a course like my favorite guys on BBCs Top Gear! I love the way Clarkson goes around the turn all out, tires spinning and the car drifting sideways, with only one hand on the wheel and he turns his head to the camera just like he was talking to a passenger. One hand with two fingers on the wheel and using his other hand to talk with! Like its nothing that the car is going sideways!

What a rush that must be! Of course having your own airport to set up a road course is a big plus. Must be nice! When I go to Vegas to drive the Supercars around the track I'll be sure to do the ride along with the drift pro driver. That's ganna be a blast for sure! But I'll try not to just scream like a little girl, instead I'll try to focus on what and how the driver is doing the drifts.


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[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

To use the bang for the buck argument, I don't know why anyone would buy a ZL1 over the 1LE..anyway different discussion.

These discussions sort of remind me of 1998 when the LS1 found its way into the F-cars. The ZL1 group today sound alot like the 4.6 guys from back then. The horsepower difference between the two was so large that it pushed the discussion to something else. The Ford bunch hated the F-car driving position, handling, fit/finish, cat converter hump in the passenger floor...etc.. To them the mustang was a "better" car... But the one thing they couldn't deny was that the LS1 was just plain faster..

2003-2008 was just too boring, thanks GM..

Fast forward to today, and we have the opposite scenario for each side. Huge power in an older chassis for the mustang, and a more modern chassis for the Camaro but less power.

The horsepower guys won't understand why anyone cares about driving in circles, and the road race guys will point at the HP guys suspensions and laugh. At the end of the day choose what YOU want, drive it and be happy to have that choice..

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Are you serious why would anyone buy a ZL1 over the 1LE, for starters the ZL1 is a fast car in any scenario, street, strip, and the track. The 1LE has proven to be a 13-sec car at the strip, has it's tail handed to it in just about every real world street race against the competitive modern muscle. The ZL1 isn't a one trick pony, it can back up it's reputation on the street and strip and not only in the pages of a magazine.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by MJanowich

Considering the ZL1 is 3 seconds faster as per Car and Driver's Lightning Lap, I don't see how a stock GT500 would be faster on the 'Ring. Plus, the way Randy Pobst talked about the brake fade in the GT500, I don't think it would do very well on a nearly 13 mile twisty road course. I'm thinking the car wasn't stock or there was a timing error.

this is easy to answer. the lightning lap is done with editors in the car. novice driver will usually not drive a car like a GT500 to it's postential. I guaranty you ford proabably had good fluid in the car when they were track the car alont with a cage etc.


any test without a pro behind the wheel the Zl1 has lapped faster every time. with a pro they are neck and neck or slight advantage GT500.

I am pretty positive I would run a better lap time in my Zl1 than my Z06 or a GT500 just do to the fact I am pretty confident behind teh wheel and never that scared. car comunictes the limit better IMO.

I would love to see a test where they just took internet sh$t talkers and then made them run laps ha ha. the same guy that waves his car companies flag might run a better time in something else. I would love to try. who knows maybe I would lap a g500 better but I think it would be hard to control the corner exit on the car at my skill level.

have the "pil" to run laps in each. I would laugh my ass off if he ran a better time in the Zl1 or C7 than a Boss 302 or GT500.

I have yet to see one novice driver in any test blister the track in a GT500. I know it is fast car though because pro/experienced drivers lay down great times with it.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by RoadieWingZ

C'mon guys.... Stop feeding and arguing with the 'stang trolls that love to hangout here... Using a calibrated track-side timer that's independent of the vehicle being evaluated, and thats not subject to "editing" by biased parties, is the only way to get true head-to-head comparisons. Anything else is always suspect...

Actually the only way to get a true head-to-head is to run the cars back-to-back with a non-biased driver. The ring is a great marketing tool, Nissan proved that with the GT-R. Here's a nice quote from Jalopnik...

"Nürburgring laps have been played out since back in 2008, when everyone got tired of Nissan claiming they'd beaten Porsche with the GT-R and both sides going back and forth again and again. Chris Harris actually had a great story on the fatigue over the 'Ring those five years ago and the message is just as true today — there are too many variables that change a 'Ring lap. The track is so big that the weather on the close side of the track can be different from the weather on the far side. Every driver is different. Track temperature can be significant. A single 'Ring lap just isn't decisive."

http://jalopnik.com/did-the-mclaren-...ing-1458393775

McLaren now won't release Ring times, and of course those who are anti-McLaren say it's because they failed to beat the 918. McLaren says it's becoming a dangerous pursuit. I say, "who cares?".

What I do know is that a ZL1 ( 1:20.1 ) beat my car around Toronto Motorsports Park ( 1:21.450 ), and that's all that matters till next time, at which point the Z/28 will probably crush us both. But will it take out the 2014 Audi R8 V10 Plus ( 1:18.449 )?

See, unless we are racing competitively, the fun is in simply playing. So get your car out on a track, and see what YOU can do with it. What someone else does at the Ring, isn't really your accomplishment to brag about, is it?

[shaffe]

That is well said^

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Actually the only way to get a true head-to-head is to run the cars back-to-back with a non-biased driver. The ring is a great marketing tool, Nissan proved that with the GT-R. Here's a nice quote from Jalopnik...

"Nürburgring laps have been played out since back in 2008, when everyone got tired of Nissan claiming they'd beaten Porsche with the GT-R and both sides going back and forth again and again. Chris Harris actually had a great story on the fatigue over the 'Ring those five years ago and the message is just as true today — there are too many variables that change a 'Ring lap. The track is so big that the weather on the close side of the track can be different from the weather on the far side. Every driver is different. Track temperature can be significant. A single 'Ring lap just isn't decisive."

http://jalopnik.com/did-the-mclaren-...ing-1458393775

McLaren now won't release Ring times, and of course those who are anti-McLaren say it's because they failed to beat the 918. McLaren says it's becoming a dangerous pursuit. I say, "who cares?".

What I do know is that a ZL1 ( 1:20.1 ) beat my car around Toronto Motorsports Park ( 1:21.450 ), and that's all that matters till next time, at which point the Z/28 will probably crush us both. But will it take out the 2014 Audi R8 V10 Plus ( 1:18.449 )?

See, unless we are racing competitively, the fun is in simply playing. So get your car out on a track, and see what YOU can do with it. What someone else does at the Ring, isn't really your accomplishment to brag about, is it?

There are anti-McLaren people? Fools.

[LostPony]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

...
See, unless we are racing competitively, the fun is in simply playing. So get your car out on a track, and see what YOU can do with it. What someone else does at the Ring, isn't really your accomplishment to brag about, is it?

Spot on! I can't tell you how many times I've seen a "superior" car humbled by a talented driver in an "inferior" car. Many times it's a lowly little Miata that does it!

Those times mean little to me, the only ones that count are the ones that are running on track same time as I am.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by LostPony

Spot on! I can't tell you how many times I've seen a "superior" car humbled by a talented driver in an "inferior" car. Many times it's a lowly little Miata that does it!

Those times mean little to me, the only ones that count are the ones that are running on track same time as I am.

That's for sure, who's in the drivers seat makes all the difference. All the ZL1 owners/fans are crying after watching Top Gear and that crappy driver behind the wheel. Everybody likes to see their car in a starring role until an amateur gets behind the wheel and puts up a rookie performance. Had the ZL1 posted a good solid 1/4 mile time everybody would be happy, but its bad enough when its set up to lose from the get go, and you throw in a bad performance.


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[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by LostPony

Spot on! I can't tell you how many times I've seen a "superior" car humbled by a talented driver in an "inferior" car. Many times it's a lowly little Miata that does it!

Those times mean little to me, the only ones that count are the ones that are running on track same time as I am.

There is no better car to develop your driving skill in than a Miata. Girl's car, my arse. The ability to hustle a Miata cleanly and quickly around a track seperates the men from the boys.

[big hammer]

arguing over a possible one second on the ring with a made up clock and ran at different times of the year is retarded.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Actually the only way to get a true head-to-head is to run the cars back-to-back with a non-biased driver. The ring is a great marketing tool, Nissan proved that with the GT-R. Here's a nice quote from Jalopnik...

"Nürburgring laps have been played out since back in 2008, when everyone got tired of Nissan claiming they'd beaten Porsche with the GT-R and both sides going back and forth again and again. Chris Harris actually had a great story on the fatigue over the 'Ring those five years ago and the message is just as true today — there are too many variables that change a 'Ring lap. The track is so big that the weather on the close side of the track can be different from the weather on the far side. Every driver is different. Track temperature can be significant. A single 'Ring lap just isn't decisive." [And don't forget what tires are fitted...]
http://jalopnik.com/did-the-mclaren-...ing-1458393775

McLaren now won't release Ring times, and of course those who are anti-McLaren say it's because they failed to beat the 918. McLaren says it's becoming a dangerous pursuit. I say, "who cares?".

What I do know is that a ZL1 ( 1:20.1 ) beat my car around Toronto Motorsports Park ( 1:21.450 ), and that's all that matters till next time, at which point the Z/28 will probably crush us both. But will it take out the 2014 Audi R8 V10 Plus ( 1:18.449 )?

See, unless we are racing competitively, the fun is in simply playing. So get your car out on a track, and see what YOU can do with it. What someone else does at the Ring, isn't really your accomplishment to brag about, is it?

I've resisted entering this "arena"...until now.

ding-ding-ding!

Sanity prevails, finally.

Kudos to Fenderaddict2.

We have a winner...and, hopefully, THE final word...

Regarding Miata: Someone with far more knowledge and experience than I suggested driving the Z/28 will be like driving a big-azz Miata (I paraphrase), which would suggest to me that the finesse required to make a Miata perform up to its capabilities is an ability we ALL need to work on...instead of merely debating its worth.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Sorry but posting a video a year or so later after the ZL1 is released trying to say the GT500 is fast at the ring? Not buying it.

Ford had plenty of time, time is up. This video isn't official by any means. GT500 will forever be known as a big HP getter but lacking in every other aspect.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

Sorry but posting a video a year or so later after the ZL1 is released trying to say the GT500 is fast at the ring? Not buying it.

Ford had plenty of time, time is up. This video isn't official by any means. GT500 will forever be known as a big HP getter but lacking in every other aspect.

The 'ring is a big power track and the video is there. Even if the timing is off by a few seconds or more the GT500 is obviously within close range of the ZL1 and that has been shown in pretty much every other track test.