Shno's House of Z

[90503]

...Getting air in a Z/28??....So much for all this "downforce" business....lol...

[OldScoolCamaro]

...hahaha done that a few times, abit raucous in my approach, but never the less thrilling...., all experiences either good or bad are part of the learning curve. And you don't forget them, or shouldn't I should say. What doesn't kill ya makes you stronger.... LOL....

[*007]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...hahaha done that a few times, abit raucous in my approach, but never the less thrilling...., all experiences either good or bad are part of the learning curve. And you don't forget them, or shouldn't I should say. What doesn't kill ya makes you stronger.... LOL....

Yes, done so also. '67 GTO. Big ship I guess. Later up on rack both exhaust pipes were flattened to about half diameter of normal. LOL…. Never forgot that. I knew I had bottomed out, but didn't realize extent of damage until next oil change. Those were the years!

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by *007

Yes, done so also. '67 GTO. Big ship I guess. Later up on rack both exhaust pipes were flattened to about half diameter of normal. LOL…. Never forgot that. I knew I had bottomed out, but didn't realize extent of damage until next oil change. Those were the years!

One of my favorite cars from back in the day was a friend's '66 GTO with three deuces and 4 speed, loved the tailights on them, performed pretty well too. Lot's of great cars back then.
Clyde

[LOWDOWN]

BTW, in my personal Top 3 GM Vehicles on display @ SEMA was this little dandy! Just the thing to tow the Z/28 to the track with...or give a Ford the TREMORS and RAM a Dodge where it needs ramming... Give this an RPO, and add some Part #s for the non-NHTSA bits...please! Oh, and make the Blue graphics Bright Silver to match the required Silver speed-mesh grilles... This concept could make all us father-truckers (and a few moms, too!) forget all about those 20 yr. old 454 SSs! This truck with an LT-1 ROCKS!!

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

BTW, in my personal Top 3 GM Vehicles on display @ SEMA was this little dandy! Just the thing to tow the Z/28 to the track with...or give a Ford the TREMORS and RAM a Dodge where it needs ramming... Give this an RPO, and add some Part #s for the non-NHTSA bits...please!

Good stuff right there!

[LOWDOWN]

We tried to get GMC, 10 years ago, to build a Short Box 2WD Sierra with the V-Max 6.0 and 2500 brakes... "No, not an approved combo", came the word. It was a proper-length driveshaft away from being buildable. "We'll order 1,000 to start", we said.

[silence]

Ford Tremor. Dodge's new entry.

How many Z/28 turndowns might consider one of these?!

SIR TRUCKS-ALOT

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

Not Pete (actually I am, but not that Pete), but the answer is that the bigger the sway bar, the more the suspension setup and/or design is compromised. Proper car setups have stunningly small sways. Big fat sways are compensating for a defect somewhere else in the suspension design, for example low spring rates.

A properly sprung and dampened car can use much smaller and lighter sways. Small(er) sways are yet one more piece of evidence that the Z/28 was properly designed for its mission in life.

Attached graphic is the sway bar (and one of two attachment links) off of an F3 car, it about the length of a long cigar and half the diameter of one in the center section.

Nice theory.

Proper? Proper would be a 1500 pound F1 car. We are talking about street cars. In particular we are talking about a 4,000 pound car track ready with a driver. I don't deal in theory. I deal in data, facts and results. 27mm front bar, 32mm rear bar. 12kg coils front and rear. coiovers, camber plates, 300 pounds of nitrogen pressure with independent bound and rebound in a track ready 3980 pound 5th Gen Camaro delivers the FASTEST ROAD COURSE TIME at the OPTIMA Ultimate Street Car Invitational.

My Camaros were the First to be Fast and have been the fastest since we started back in 2009. There isn't another suspension company or car builder that can say their 5th Gen beat my 5th Gen. Not once. Not in 2009. Not in 2010. Not in 2011. Not in 2012. Not in 2013. There isn't an opinion or theory that can change that. TEAM Camaro built the baddest axx factory hot rod ever in the Z/28. I built the baddest axx street version of the 5th Gen back in 2009. Lingenfelter and I built an even faster version in 2011. It got faster in 2012. It got faster in 2013. We don't have the most power. We have 600 NA RWHP. We beat cars with more than double the RWHP that weight 700 pounds less.

For the record, I think the Z/28 is absolutely and AWESOME factory hot rod. There is a reason thee aftermarket exists. We can do things that by budget or law cannot be done at the factory. Thank you Al O and the entire Camaro TEAM for providing us with a phenomenally capable 5h Gen chassis. We couldn't do what we do without you.

[Zfatuated]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Nice theory.

Proper? Proper would be a 1500 pound F1 car. We are talking about street cars. In particular we are talking about a 4,000 pound car track ready with a driver. I don't deal in theory. I deal in data, facts and results. 27mm front bar, 32mm rear bar. 12kg coils front and rear. coiovers, camber plates, 300 pounds of nitrogen pressure with independent bound and rebound in a track ready 3980 pound 5th Gen Camaro delivers the FASTEST ROAD COURSE TIME at the OPTIMA Ultimate Street Car Invitational.

No offense intended, at all, in my post toward the fine builds you guys do, and the products you produce. No slam was intended towards your business, I think what you do is awesome! By proper and compromised I was talking about a single-seat, rear engine car :-) Anything else is compromised for a road course. As you noted in your post. My apology for not being clear about my thoughts.

However I do stand behind my previous comment: "Small(er) sways are yet one more piece of evidence that the Z/28 was properly designed for its mission in life." (i.e higher spring rates/lowered roll center/better weight distribution/high-quality dampening)

[LOWDOWN]

The original GM proponent of the "BIG sway bar/'soft' spring" (actually anti-sway bar is more apt...) was one Herb Adams and his very small team. His work on the Pontiac Trans Am, early-'70s, is legendary, culminating in, what was at that time, THE best handling OE F-Car. His VSE enterprise and its FireAm and CheVerra programs, post-GM, were an exclamation point on his understanding of F-Car-based solid axle suspension.

Justice Pete, you and all the folks involved, including LPE, deserve to Popp some spirits (and I'm sure you did!), based on your '13 OUSCI results. Congrats! I wish I could have stayed over for the event. Next year...

Pete, every suspension system has its idiosyncrasies. Big bars, in many cases, do in fact compensate for other compromises, just as the reverse would be true. Solid axle architecture generally calls for a lighter spring DEPENDING ON SURFACE OR MISSION, and to compensate for that (again depending on other variables), a bigger bar allows the softer springs to follow the road surface ("give" if you please) while affording more controlled vehicle motions in the turns (assuming road course is the venue). High-banked ovals take a different set-up, and so forth.

To me, suspension design/engineering is a fascinating area of vehicle dynamics, and an area where "tried-n-tested-n-proven" is the ultimate and only answer...and I believe the Lingenfelter L28 proves this beyond reasonable doubt. After all, it was Justice Pete's "square 305" setup that Team Camaro adopted for the Z/28...

[2cnd chance]

Pete, that's a big CONGRATULATIONS!

Will it be televised?

[tramtwo]

Help!! My user name has been snatched!!

[tramtwo]

Originally Posted by tramtwo

Help!! My user name has been snatched!!

OK I'm back.. whew

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[JusticePete]

Lowdown,

You are correct about Herb Adams. One of Herb's Trans Ams was running at the OPTIMA.

2cndChance,

It will be televised.

All,

My frustrations with GM Performance Parts and the C5 community are running high. I think GMPP should be selling packages out of the production parts bin and that bin is deeper than it has ever been. The 1LE. ZL1 and Z/28 suspensions are packages designed for use with related parts. The 1LE bars will work with any square wheel and tire setup. The ZL1 bars will work with any staggered setup. The Z/28 bars will work with the Z/28 aero, springs, dampers and square tire package. Put Z/28 bars on a SS and they are a poor match.

1LE owners are installing staggered wheel and tire setups. Do the new 5th Gen Camaros come with an instruction manual?

We love 12kg coils on our road course cars. 12kg rear coils are a disaster on 500 RWHP drag Camaros.

If you run 315s in the rear buy a 28mm factory bar to run with your stock front bar. You can build a nice Camaro out of the GMPP parts bin, if you give it some thought.

The Z/28 is running OE ZL1 or 1LE sub-frame bushings. Really?



Good thing I can immerse myself in work that I love