Trade in M3 for a ZL1?

[NightmareZL1]

Originally Posted by ZL1Darkone

I think the BMW got it in the curves but on the drag strip the Zl1 eats it...
I think the best time I have seen on the M3 quarter mile is 12.5 while the Zl1 seems to be consistently in the lower 12 and upper 11s correct?
Can you tell a big seat of the pants/neck snapping feel when you floor the Camaro versus the M3? With the low torque on the M3 I am guessing its a big diff?

At the strip, the Zl1 will kill the M3, yes. But, at the lights, without turning on launch mode on either car, the M3 will, give the Zl1 a hard time for a couple blocks. That is HUGE, considering the large HP difference. I really expected the cars to be night and day different in street, spirited driving performance and I was shocked that the M3, just delivered more and more often with less grunt.

Power is only felt when it connects to the ground and the M3 did that much better. So, no, not a real seat of the pants feel/neck snapping from the ZL1.
Yes, at a drag strip. no, on the street. Full throttle on the M almost never spun tires. it just hooked an went. even when shifting in turns. The ZL1 is ice skating with big power. Maybe with stickier rubber on the ZL1 it will be a totally different story.

As far as the torque difference, the M had a 8400 rpm red line. And, with 8 individual throttle bodies, it got there fast. on/off throttle transitions were like a 1000cc sport bike -immediatte. In hot driving and in the corners, that throttle response + the DCT and the high RPM made up for lacking torque. I really never felt that I lacked torque, even though it did. There is a giant delay in on/off on the ZL1 - probably compounded by the boost.

The ZL1 is obviously the faster car, but it has to hook up with the road, before it can do some damage with the huge torque. Coming from a C6 Z06 and then 2 M3's, I do miss the precise power delivery of high rev/NA powerplants, but the supercharged power of the ZL1 + the whine through the rotofab, with the sweet stock exhaust note, and tire frying torque, make me smile daily.

The M3, did everything better - hell, it even has the same top speed as the ZL1 - 184mph (stock vs Stock), but it bored me. No one but beemer people complimented it, and it never scared me due to lack of brutality. It was just too civilized.

You will miss the BMW audio system. I had the BMW stock one in the first M3 and the optional Sound system in the second M3, they put the ZL1 audio system to EXTREME shame. One, day, I will have to remedy that.

[NightmareZL1]

Originally Posted by ZL1Darkone

So no lifter issues? Piston problems? Engine failures? timing belts snapping...???

I reved/drove and abused the crap out of my M3's. broke a couple DCT transmissions. but drivetrain wise, they were impeccable. F&^k the $1800 oil change service at every 15000 miles. $130 for the ZL1

Another diff between the two cars, the M3 wears down it's wheels evenly. The ZL1 rubbs away it's tires unevenly and in a hurry. Crappier suspension design, effective, but crappier than M stuff. So, ZL1 handling is great, but it kills tires because on non optimal geometry - and heft.

[S3XPanther]

I wouldn't, but that's just because I like the M3, especially the E92 waaaaaay more than a ZL1.

[kaamacat]

Originally Posted by omegaman

Great tip! I'll give it a try.

One other thing....don't touch the wheel once you have sprayed it. (But just go slow, and be liberal with the stuff). Typically a can will do 8 wheels. I did get smarter on the pattern used when doing it......I did this order.

1) Left/Right side of any "spoke" section
2) Center
3) Slow pass around the outside, which would get the outer wheel area and also the "inner" between the spoke areas.

... takes a few times to see how it works best for yours, but I love the stuff.

And again, do not move the car/wheel for 24hrs if you can. ENJOY!

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by ZL1Darkone

By the way thanks for this amazing write up coming from someone that had a M3 this really is great information!!!

................raaaaaalllllpppppppppphhhhhhhh,, where's the barf little modicon thingy at.

[Howdie_]

I currently own a '08 BMW 135i, '99 Trans Am WS6, and a '13 ZL1 Convertible. The ZL1 is the most fun car ever, that I have driven. I have owned a Vette, and driven C3 through C6s. The 135i is the current (BMW) darling of the mags having that "true BMW feel" and it is a LOT of fun. It is way too expensive to own, for what you get though. I can easily maintain and modify the TA and Z, and lots of aftermarket support exists.

For what you get, there is no other car near on price per fun $. My opinion, your mileage may vary...

[boondocksaint]

If you plan to track the car, do what I did. Bring a helmet with you on the test drive. Make sure you have helmet clearance sunroof/no sunroof. I hate sunroofs, so I opted not to have one. All BMWs come with them standard (unless they're verts). It's an option on the ZL1.

[Truck Norris]

Has anyone touched on paint quality issues? If not do a search.

[OldScoolCamaro]

...yes, there are some paint issues I can attest to. But to purchase a Euro and all that for how many times the coin???> My argument is be my guest, and enjoy the refinements, appointments and paint quality etc...etc... I am not replying to you but in general sir. The ZL1 will stand on the opponents throat and not let them up performance wise. It's a brawler...a beat down ride. The majority or plurality of the other higher end performance cars can't hold a candle to it.

[Bosse'sBoss]

If you check the past MT issue the BMW M3 went head to head with the '11 Mustang GT 5.0 w/. the Brembo package, for half the money the Mustang kept up with the M3 (the Boss will left the M3 behind, and the Camaro 1LE will be on front of all of them). In short the ZL1 is a superior car & is equal in performance to the new Porsche 911 Carrera S. The BMW is just an elite name that's it, even the new Mercedes AMG are better than BMW. About quality I don't think that US cars are below the europeans, I use to have a '02 Porsche Carrera and its reliabilty was crap and very expensive to maintain, I sweared to never buy and European car again. Only Japanese cars are above in quality.

[Truck Norris]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...yes, there are some paint issues I can attest to. But to purchase a Euro and all that for how many times the coin???> My argument is be my guest, and enjoy the refinements, appointments and paint quality etc...etc... I am not replying to you but in general sir. The ZL1 will stand on the opponents throat and not let them up performance wise. It's a brawler...a beat down ride. The majority or plurality of the other higher end performance cars can't hold a candle to it.

Those DCT M3 are no slouch when it comes to acceleration.

The DCT's are good for consistent mid 12's time after time after time. Sure the ZL1 has posted quicker times and is way more mod friendly but I would be a little nervous going against one if money was on the line which is a far cry from "standing on its throat and not letting them up" There are a lot more ZL1 owners with 13 second time slips then DCT M3's.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by ZL1Darkone

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the feed back and it sounds like the ZL1's engine is pretty bullet proof....
One thing for sure being on these forums I can tell already that everyone is more laid back and performances car focused - just like when I owned a Corvette and on their forums. The BMW unfortunately has those who are performance car focused and those who are just rich jerks looking to show off. As an example: On the BMW M3 forum they actually have a thread that is focused on the kind of watches they buy, most are in the 10k range ....WTF a watch for 10K? ..lol....that's allot of mods for the price of a watch...

Thanks everyone

Hey, some people leave their cars stock and spend money on expensive watches because that is what they like. I'm not into watches, but when I retire I will definitely buy myself a Rolex..or a Cartier...or an Omega. Different priorities.

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

I reved/drove and abused the crap out of my M3's. broke a couple DCT transmissions. but drivetrain wise, they were impeccable. F&^k the $1800 oil change service at every 15000 miles. $130 for the ZL1

Another diff between the two cars, the M3 wears down it's wheels evenly. The ZL1 rubbs away it's tires unevenly and in a hurry. Crappier suspension design, effective, but crappier than M stuff. So, ZL1 handling is great, but it kills tires because on non optimal geometry - and heft.

$1800 for an oil change? Do you actually own the car or did you just make that up? BMW oil changes are on average about $150.

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

If you check the past MT issue the BMW M3 went head to head with the '11 Mustang GT 5.0 w/. the Brembo package, for half the money the Mustang kept up with the M3 (the Boss will left the M3 behind, and the Camaro 1LE will be on front of all of them). In short the ZL1 is a superior car & is equal in performance to the new Porsche 911 Carrera S. The BMW is just an elite name that's it, even the new Mercedes AMG are better than BMW. About quality I don't think that US cars are below the europeans, I use to have a '02 Porsche Carrera and its reliabilty was crap and very expensive to maintain, I sweared to never buy and European car again. Only Japanese cars are above in quality.

I have a 2011 GT that is currently set up to be faster than an M3, and I will tell you honestly, if I could afford to buy an M3 over my GT, it's worth the extra $20k.

[kaamacat]

I'm thinking the $1800 is a typo..... Whether BMW or Porsche, a 9QT oil change with the filter element, o-ring, new crush washer runs $180-195 w/Mobil1.

[dimitri]

I had a Zl1 2012 ..manual
nice car but the car is hefty.
so the 580 Hp really did make me smile