irpq11, L99 Dyno results.

[1camaro70]

or we can complain, complain, complain, sell your car, buy another one, say your going to take a long test drive before accepting it, what if it is the same? Not everyone can go buy one until GM gets it right, let's try to use reason and maybe GM still does monitor these forums, and might work harder to get us answers.

[rpepka]

If it is the same I guess I will have to wait until GM gets the buggs out and purchase a different car. What is reason? I called customer service and they said gee SORRY FOR YOUR LUCK. We are all only asking for what was promised. The LS3 owners are happy campers, the L99's owners with slow cars in most cases are being ignored, put on hold or told "there is no problem" which is a bold face lie. So there are only a few choices, complain and hope someone listens, void our warentee's at our expense after we just spent quite a bit of cash buying the car or just keep the slug and get laughed at by the mustang gt's that kick our butts. We are not a bunch of complainers, we have better things to do then take our brand new cars into the dealer and have them treat us like we are on crack.

[rpepka]

Originally Posted by 1camaro70

or we can complain, complain, complain, sell your car, buy another one, say your going to take a long test drive before accepting it, what if it is the same? Not everyone can go buy one until GM gets it right, let's try to use reason and maybe GM still does monitor these forums, and might work harder to get us answers.

Are you having any problems with your car?

[rpepka]

Keep in mind that nothing would please us more then to be reporting how great the car runs, we all want GM to succeed. The car is a real beauty but is an incomplete package. If I wanted to cruise and look good I would have saved half the cash and bought the 6 banger!

[rpepka]

Originally Posted by live2well

You very well could be right about there being more a lot more cases but you could also be wrong.

Is the glass half empty or half full? I choose half full. Therefore I choose to believe there is a problem but it isn't as wide spread as you seem choose to believe. It takes time to resolve issues, especially issues as complex as this one. It may take 200-300 hrs to solve this issue. It could be more or less. WE DONT KNOW. So lets be cool and wait for a result and hopefully a solution.

Well I guess that they have to admit there is a problem before they will fix it. In my case they said there was nothing wrong with it. Needless to say I got so upset I sold the car.

[solo40oz]

Originally Posted by Restroom

Whoever keeps posting those joke pics from a cellular phone application, please stop. Let's be serious. Also, don't reply to me with links to a marketing video. People have real problems and ought to be treated with a modicum of respect. Numbers come from certified devices. I mean no offense to the misinformed, but garbage data isn't going to do anyone any good.

I do somewhat agree with you about the hp/torque #s that are calculated from those 'joke cellphone' apps, gtech, etc....HOWEVER, those same 'joke' devices can also very accurately measure acceleration. You can take your car to 10 different 'certified' dynos and get 10 different results. And what does a dyno really tell you anyway? Let's say you put a Suburban on a dyno and get 300 hp...and then put a Camaro on a dyno and get 290 hp. Does that mean the Suburban is going to win a 1/4 mile race?

If you have the ability to measure acceleration (which by the way, there is this thing called physics, where velocity, time, distance and acceleration have a relation to each other), then it is a true apples to apples comparison and should not be considered garbage data.

[ElAntonius]

Frankly, I don't think people would give a damn about dyno runs if their car was getting the advertised 0-60 times...I know I don't care what my car dynos for at the moment.

I've said it before...at least some people that are having problems need an expectation adjustment. Other people have legitimate gripes and have every right in the world to complain...I don't think people should have to shell out their hard earned money 'proving' there is a problem.

iPhone apps and similar are a great, inexpensive way to indicate whether a problem is there or not. Sure, it's probably not accurate down to the .0000001 second, but irpq's iphone dumps actually tell a pretty good story, if you care to look.

I actually think the L99 doesn't have a power problem, but rather, a consistency problem. SOMETHING is making these cars weak on some runs. I think hot, humid weather compounds this...and combine that with perhaps someone getting a weaker one in the flock I could see a recipe for disaster there.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

most every car comes rich from the factory, but adding in the easy break-in's that people are doing is keeping the pcm from leaning itself out. not to mention, every LS series motor doesnt really come into its own until about 5-10,000 miles.




its safer to run rich than lean. auto manufacturers tune the car to run richer than needed on a stock tune to err on the safe side.




honestly, I would never have used that thing for a real 1/4mile test/recording device. this weekend you need to drive to the track, let the car cool down for a little while you grab lunch, and then go take it down the quarter mile (maybe even try it with the "other" wheels you have too. )

I don't use the app for 'real' recording as far as factual data. I use it for fun.
I have no doubt I will eventually go to the track. I just don't have the free time. I'll make time but I won't be real soon.

I hope you're righ about the rest. I'm coming up on 5k miles now. I don't know what it's running now but seems to maybe be loosening up. Just sucks that I would have to do it this way.

Originally Posted by Restroom

Whoever keeps posting those joke pics from a cellular phone application, please stop. Let's be serious. Also, don't reply to me with links to a marketing video. People have real problems and ought to be treated with a modicum of respect. Numbers come from certified devices. I mean no offense to the misinformed, but garbage data isn't going to do anyone any good.

I hope you're not talking about me. Go back and look at my posts. Never ONCE did I say I was using this app as a gauge. I post them for fun and I use it alot to get a possible consistancy comparison. I do it for my own use. The slow times I use for evedence of my car having a problem are video and stopwatch. Of whitch I have also posted here. Say what you want, but you can get an accurate time with a video and an average of timing it with a timing device within at least two tenths. Certainly close enough to know your car is 2+ seconds slow. Hell, the iPhone shows my car as faster than the vids.

I've spent time and money on a dyno and am trying to get access to the only other one in the area that I could use. As soon as they let me I'll have them do it. Not sure what good it will do. Some of you guys on here don't like what it shows and discredit it because it's not what you want to see. I don't get it.

So ya. I'll post as many iPhone runs as I want. Until tran or the mods tell me to stop, I guess you'll have to look at them because apparently you can't help it.

I gave my dealer the dyno sheets the vid. Stuff and asked them to open a TAC. I said NOTHING about the iPhone times.

Originally Posted by Tillman Speed

Have we seen results from a different dyno shop yet? I really think something in the first dyno was botched. I feel really bad for this guy. He could be getting all worked up over data results that may hold no value whatsoever.

Chris

It's possible. I'm waiting for the other dyno guy to let me come in. (yes, apparently he's that busy) But what's the point? If you guys won't accept it, why would GM

[PQ]

Oh, and I don't even so much as glance at the HP part of the iPhone app. It's a joke. Unless my HP is 260. lol

I cut the HP reading off when I take screen shots.


Sorry for the double post. I'm on the evil iPhone and long text is a pain.

[pcmforless]

The only comment I have on 0-60 times is this.
When GM got those numbers I am sure it was with a professional drive, in ideal condtions.
Remember it is 90 degrees and 75% or higher humidity out there almost every day right now.
In the south central and southwest I am sure it is 100 and 100 or more. Thus you car is being robbed of anywhere from 30 to 50 HP from the weather (easily, and I will post evidence of this in my very next post). This is why the dynojet has weather corrections so it can give you repeatable corrected numbers wherever you are and whatever the weather is. In the winter months if I do an uncorrected dyno sheet I can see 20 to 30HP at the tire more than the corrected value, in the summer, I can see 20 to 40HP (and torque) at the tire LESS than the corrected values. Thus your car will be slower in the summer as it makes much less power. Wait till November when it is 60 degrees down there and very little humidity and make sure the car hooks up well and I bet your 0-60 times are MUCH better.
I'm not in any way defending GM, but I feel this car is doing as advertised and the L99 I rode in on Thursday night felt VERY strong (it was tuned already though). This wednesday when I do a second one, maybe I will go ride in it as is first to get an unbiased opinion.

[pcmforless]

Here are the dyno sheets with the uncorrected values. As you can see at 78 degrees and 49% humidity (here in the northeast, which is easily MUCH less than I am sure guys are seeing in the Florida area and the Gulf regions) we are down 20HP at the tires and 20 FT/LBS. Assuming even just 20% drivetrain loss that is 24HP at the crank and 24 FT/LBS. So, imagine 95 degree weather and 100% humidity you can count out 40 to 50 HP pretty easily.
Once again, before I get any hate mail or anything, I do not work for GM, nor am I defending them, I'm just trying to help with my years of experience explain what you guys are seeing and feeling.

[PQ]

I understand this pcmforless, but you could never get me to believe that being hot and humid could make the car 2 and 3 full seconds slower in a 0-60 run, 2 and 3 seconds is a BIG difference. That's 25 to 35% slower. I can't see it. Other cars running in the same conditions down here are seeing right at 5 to 8% loss in their quarter and eighth mile times summer to winter according to the tuners I've talked to. After all. If you told me my car would run 4.7 everytime but it would only have 200 HP I'd take it. I care about acceleration. I've noticed that with the tunes people have been posting, the HP goes up but the torque has gone up a lot more than the HP. THAT's what I want.

[rpepka]

As I said before:

2000 automatic Trans Am non WS6 VS:

2005 bone stock GTO automatic 400 advertised HP. Pulls the The T/A out of the hole and wins by 4 car lengths in a quarter.

2010 Camaro, the T/A pulls the Camaro out of the hole and wins by 4 car lenghths in the quarter.

Exact same weather conditions.

Same with Randy's Car (irpq11) His wife's car is kicking his butt with a little 6 banger, Right Randy?

We are getting beat by 300hp Mustang GT's. Our 0 to 60 times are between 6 and 7.5 seconds. Their is a serious problem, weather, humitity, uphill or downhill.

[solo40oz]

irpq11 -
Do you have the ability on the DL app to show the Gs only, with the y axis showing the actual value of the Gs? (I see in the results, it shows the max Gs, but you can't see the value for the entire run). I think an interesting experiment (and something fun too!) would be to do like 5-6 runs every day this week to see how consistent/inconsistent your car pulls (Gs is the data you want to observe).

1) make sure your runs are consistent - do all in the same mode (whichever you prefer between D, M, competitive)
2) each time you make a run, check the weather and record it - temp, humidity, etc...
3) if the iPhone shows you the Gs in each direction at idle, try to adjust the position to get it level (Gs as close to 0 as possible) - also, try to make sure your iPhone is stable during the run..if it's flopping around during the pull, it's going to skew your results
4) make your run at the same place each time, and if possible, do a run in each direction to compensate for non-level surfaces

The interesting thing will be if you have some major deltas in a sequence that was performed on the same day - and might be useful info to share with the GM guys when they finally look at your car. If you don't see anything weird, at least you will have established a baseline with known variables.