2014 Camaro Z/28 pricing announced at $75,000

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Obviously you don't get it or want it so move on. We've given counter-arguments, however you poo-poo them, so why should we continue listening to your "same" arguments? If you want to build your ZL1 do it! I'd iove to see what it can do.

Fair statement wasn't aware ZL1 had heat soak issues. Are there solutions? Threads u can point me to? If so, I'd appreciate the info. Thx

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Regarding the LS7, the Z07 was almost as fast as the ZR1 around the Ring with far less HP. Hmmmmmm?

True! Then Nismo TA blew them both away, but the new Z06 is coming in a week

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Fair statement wasn't aware ZL1 had heat soak issues. Are there solutions? Threads u can point me to? If so, I'd appreciate the info. Thx

I don't believe I mentioned heat-soak in any of my post?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

True! Then Nismo TA blew them both away, but the new Z06 is coming in a week

Huh??? I'm comparing the LS7 (which your not impressed with) to an even "more" powerful FI engine (than the LSA) in the same car (C6), and it is very close to its Ring time. Thus showing "more" power is not always the answer.

[Todd in Vancouver]

[QUOTE=2cnd chance;7319094]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

The ZL1 with the Trofeos will get closer to the Z/28 on the Ring, however as more laps are made it will fall off, why? The tires will go away faster on the heavier ZL1 with it's higher COG also negatively affecting it.

Agree, the Z28 is going to be a killer car and for the price it's hitting way above its class. It is apparent that those who are really shook up with the $75K price tag just aren't going to accept it. The reality is some of us who are building older Pro-tour cars are going to be in that neighbourhood by the time we are done building them. Hell, I'm 2/3's of the way there and my car is stripped and still hanging on a rotisserie.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I don't believe I mentioned heat-soak in any of my post?

A couple of other folks did as an issue with ZL1 on track. Pls desregard the reference.

[2cnd chance]

[QUOTE=Todd in Vancouver;7319117]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Agree, the Z28 is going to be a killer car and for the price it's hitting way above its class. It is apparent that those who are really shook up with the $75K price tag just aren't going to accept it. The reality is some of us who are building older Pro-tour cars are going to be in that neighbourhood by the time we are done building them. Hell, I'm 2/3's of the way there and my car is stripped and still hanging on a rotisserie.

Sounds fun!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Huh??? I'm comparing the LS7 (which your not impressed with) to an even "more" powerful FI engine (than the LSA) in the same car (C6), and it is very close to its Ring time. Thus showing "more" power is not always the answer.

Yes, but the ZR1 was still faster. Never said I wasn't impressed by the Z06 motor as a choice for a 3100lb car. It is a work horse and it sings My repsonse was to folks calling it "exotic" and being overly impressed by the fact it has a sump pump. Is is an excellent choice for a track application. I just hope it can make a 3800lb car put down "exotic" numbers. Time will tell.
I certainly hope GM got it right as GT350 is coming to a track near you soon

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Yes, but the ZR1 was still faster. Never said I wasn't impressed by the Z06 motor as a choice for a 3100lb car. It is a work horse and it sings My repsonse was to folks calling it "exotic" and being overly impressed by the fact it has a sump pump. Is is an excellent choice for a track application. I just hope it can make a 3800lb car put down "exotic" numbers. Time will tell.
I certainly hope GM got it right as GT350 is coming to a track near you soon

It has 130 HP more and only bested it by what 1 or 2 seconds? BTW, they both had the same Cup tires. This should help in the ZL1 vs Z/28 analysis.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

It has 130 HP more and only bested it by what 1 or 2 seconds? BTW, they both had the same Cup tires. This should help in the ZL1 vs Z/28 analysis.

3 seconds and yes, same tires would make the "analysis" interesting (and relevant).
But anyhow, what counts is that we have lots of excellent choices and lots of new cars are being unveiled. Golden age is back: z28, the Vettes, Chevy SS, the Mustangs, M4/M3, Sti, GT3, etc. Love'em or hat'em, but fun times for sure! Adios!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Agree that officially this will be the fastest "factory" Camaro, according to the order sheet anyway.

But, will it be the fastest Camaro that can be purchased directly from GM? Well, if somebody puts both cars on the same rubber and Z28 beats the ZL1 fair and square, I will admit: it is the fastest factory Camaro. But not until then.

A ZL1 with such an uprated wheel and tire package might well be faster around many road courses . . . for the first one or two hot laps. But not over the course of a 20 minute session and definitely not on the last full hot lap before the end of the session. Think heat soak and pulled timing here, same as what the drag racers were griping about all last summer.

Yes, the ZL1's cooling could be upgraded and I guess a few other things could also be done, any of which would cut into the price difference.

The NA Z/28 will still be a more nimble car, even if the ultimate lateral grip could be made exactly equal (which I still doubt even though the Z/28 and such a ZL1 would be very close).

Originally Posted by james347

Minus A/C, Navigation, Insulation, HID headlights and fog lights.

Well you do get One Speaker and a K&N air filter.

Yep. A real bargain.

Get a ZL1 or 1LE.

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

It's not meant to be a daily driver. It's attack car with exotic low volume engine and components. If you do not understand this then yes 1LE or ZL1 are your best choices.

This ↑↑↑

Certainly the Z/28 as currently configured would not be a good DD choice for james, as he's still trying to make the Z/28 make sense in the same $ to physical content fashion that people make with any other DD.

With only a separate and more streetable set of tires, there is little reason this car couldn't be a daily-driver. Once that's done - and this is common enough within the autocross and track day world - It's the nut behind the steering wheel that's really the limiting factor.


Norm

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

the Z/28 is built for the track.

the ZL1 is built for roads.

This is the most concise comparison I've seen so far.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by EnlighteningYou

The z/28 doesn't have magnetic suspension either, something that was touted as the best most advanced suspension on earth, why doesn't the Z/28 have it? Is the Z/28's non magnetic suspension better?

Possibly. None of us knows what the MRC programming does during transient cornering, or if anybody does they aren't allowed to say.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

What's exotic about an 8 year old z06 motor that makes less power then what's in the zl1? Also, exotic does not mean better or faster but always means MORE EXPENSIVE! I see no benefit in exotic whatoever if it reduces a z28 to 1500 copies, 36% price premium over zl1 and if not for the uber tires, not much (if any) performance edge.

I suppose you could look at this on a HP/liter basis, where you'd be using some sort of "equivalence factor" to account for the forced induction (1.4 has been used by various sanctioning bodies, which would bring the ZL1 down to a little over 410 HP and about 400 torque).

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Sounds like you're contradicting yourself. First you mention the "fastest factory Camaro" then you're talking about buying a used ZL1, buying tires from a dealer (not from the Factory) and adding the Recaro seats (which have no impact on performance - other than how it holds you in when you're doing 1.08 g's) This kind of argument has been made before by plenty of ZL1 owners, mostly because their car is no longer "Top Dog" of the Camaro's(when it comes to the road course).

At anything beyond about 50% of maximum lateral g's you will appreciate being better contained in the driver seat once you've experienced seats that keep you from using the steering wheel partly as an "oh shit" handle. Being more secure will affect your performance - meaning your ability to extract the performance that the car inherently has. Do not assume that the car is the limiting factor in "handling". It's part pavement, part car, part you.

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

I had the LG4, manual are you sure about the 155 Horsepower? I could've sworn I had the 215 HP version

The LG4 was the same 4-barrel engine that was also offered in various HP ratings around 155 or 160 in the 1978 - 1982 Malibu.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Any why less power when ZL1 has the best motor GM has produced ?

Some people look at forced induction as being a crutch to get big power numbers and performance. Calling it a "crutch" isn't quite as bad as calling it cheating (that term gets saved for nitrous installations), but FI does tilt the playing field.

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

The reality is some of us who are building older Pro-tour cars are going to be in that neighbourhood by the time we are done building them. Hell, I'm 2/3's of the way there and my car is stripped and still hanging on a rotisserie.

Unless your name is Ron Schwarz, most serious PT builds will probably end up there. Even his will, eventually, if he keeps breaking those LS7's.



Norm

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Some people look at forced induction as being a crutch to get big power numbers and performance. Calling it a "crutch" isn't quite as bad as calling it cheating (that term gets saved for nitrous installations), but FI does tilt the playing field. Norm

I hope none of the people ever got to a NHRA event. They will think the whole field is cheating. Since when it there a right way and wrong way to produce HP?? Not saying this is your opinion but that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard and those that have that opinion are about as closed minded as anything I have ever heard of. They would role over and die if they saw what a NHRA team does to the engine between runs. If FI is cheating, what is rebuilding your engine from scratch between every run considered?? OH THE HUMANITY....idiots.