What's with all the automatic hate?

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by ZL1-V

Wake up please it's inattention at the wheel.

Yes, this.

The proper argument is that when you're having to do all the gearshifting work yourself you don't get to let your attention stray quite as far, or as often, or for as long a period of time. Every time you have to shift, you mentally get dragged back at least closer to, well, driving the damn car.

I'd be willing to bet that the frequency and duration of phone use and most other distractions while driving is far lower among drivers of manual transmission cars than among their automatic-driving peers.


Norm

[Rob3D]

Do you all understand that there is NO automatic hate? Really. There is none. Honestly. It's just poking a little fun at ya for absolutely no reason other than that. For some reason the auto folks are real sensative about it which makes it even more funny. It's all in good fun..your cars are faster than ours so let us have a little fun with you without you getting your panties in a wad. In the immortal words of Ghandi. "Chill bro...and for the love of god, drive a stick".

[revo1059]

It's also disconcerting that so many people like to drink their coffee while driving a 580hp race car. Not much different than talking on the phone. Two hands, guys!!! You can have your coffee when you get to your destination. My children and all the children in cars on the road deserve all drivers paying 100% attention. Now I'm done preaching.

Thanks dad,

I've managed to take a drink of a beverage while I'm driving and I have enough common sense to know when I can and when I cant. It's not like I'm slurping down the Starbucks while making a left at a busy intersection in the middle of a snowstorm with an ambulance coming up behind me while I'm on the phone and trying to eat a chicken sandwich, and in my 25+ years of driving I've never crashed a car due to me not paying attention.

...and since I don't drink coffee most of my drinks have a straw coming out of the top so my view isn't blocked by a cup.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by LuckyZL-1

...... I'm a professional coffee drinker that's why! Don't try that at home kids!

Hell yes.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

My oldest granddaughter is at the stage where she is driving on her permit. All my son and I can do is offer her the opportunity for practicing this skill, using one or the other of my older cars. If she had more time for more practice I'm sure she'd get pretty good at it. That she appears to be as interested in learning this as squeezing in much practice driving between school, SAT preparation classes, and whatever else 16 y/o's do these days is a good sign. The youngest granddaughter now rides nearly all the time in stick-shift cars since out daughter bought a manual transmission Dart, so there's some hope simply from exposure there.


Norm

If I'd thought about it when I made my decision to buy the auto I'd have bought the manual. I taught both how to drive but had no manual tanny cars in the family fleet. I chose the auto for the remote start. That I never use.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Yes, this.

The proper argument is that when you're having to do all the gearshifting work yourself you don't get to let your attention stray quite as far, or as often, or for as long a period of time. Every time you have to shift, you mentally get dragged back at least closer to, well, driving the damn car.

I'd be willing to bet that the frequency and duration of phone use and most other distractions while driving is far lower among drivers of manual transmission cars than among their automatic-driving peers.


Norm

Agree with this. But most of those activities are done when in the cruising part of the commute I think. However, I'll bet most accidents happen during the NON cruising parts of a commute. So you may be right.

Only article I found on this searching Google was one that would disagree. But it was an insurance article it looked like.

Originally Posted by Rob3D

Ghandi. "Chill bro...and for the love of god, drive a stick".

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by PQ

I am 43 YO. I have driven everything from 18 wheelers for ten years to manual tannies old and new to the autos that I drive now. I have never driven a regular passenger vehicle with no syncros or blended gearing but the trucks obviously did not have them.

The paddle shifters in the autos are not much more than a novelty. They are actually useful if you have advance knowledge of your need to be in an optimized gear. For example, you see that Mustang coming up behind you on the interstate and want to be ready in case he wants to play all of a sudden. haha So you have control over the gear you are cruising in but you still have a lag for wanting to drop a few right away if needed. But there is a lag when pushing it.

Performance driving in a road course and espec. an auto-X will still be MUCH better with a ture manual tranny. Drag strip will be better with an auto. TIME WISE and consistency. But it will ALWAYS be funner to shift the gears. And while the autos are catching up time wise even on the twisty events I think right now still faster by a well driven manual.

But it's ALL easier than it used to be with technology advancing. Even the manuals. We ALL have taken advantage of technology. It's really not as simple as manual vs auto. There is much more to it than that imo.

I like using the paddles when I drive but if I'm sitting back with a full cup of open coffee I'll let the car do ALL of the work.

As far as it being superior to the extra 30+ hp I'd say at that point it is not. So I just add a few hundred extra hp and enjoy.

But superior is relative. Superior in the quarter mile speed wise. Yes. Fun wise. No. Superior in an auto-X event. No.

Everything is relative. Some like the challenge of their best 1320 with a manual over auto. Some think an auto is just useless. (I don't get this one because if it were then nobody would buy them) I'd say there are different trains of thought. A shitty driver in a manual transmission with 700 whp will beat a good driver in a auto transmission with only 350 whp all other factors equal. THe guy in the auto can use the excuse that he has twice the power. Point being all things are NEVER equal. So it comes down to what the preference is. Most auto guys don't care to prove anything to themselves or others. It's not a challenge but something that is just fun to participate in. Manual guy seems to want to have the fun but also likes a challenge of skill and not mechanics.

Me, I like the challenge of doing all of my own mechanical mods and making my car faster. It's more of a technical thing for me than a skillset driving. I can drive a manual as good a most. Not great as far as racing because I've never done it.

You may have a point there about "the manual guy likes a challenge", I never really considered this but suspect there may be some truth to this. Pretty much agree with everything you posted here. I never have hated people that drive autos. Just don't understand their thinking.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Yes, this.

The proper argument is that when you're having to do all the gearshifting work yourself you don't get to let your attention stray quite as far, or as often, or for as long a period of time. Every time you have to shift, you mentally get dragged back at least closer to, well, driving the damn car.

I'd be willing to bet that the frequency and duration of phone use and most other distractions while driving is far lower among drivers of manual transmission cars than among their automatic-driving peers.


Norm

Great now thanks to you post, I just realized that all of those inattentive idiots out on the road are driving with auto transmissions. Okay I don't hate everyone with an auto, just the inattentive idiots parked in the left lane that won't get out of the way and let the faster manual equipped cars run by.

Originally Posted by Rob3D

..your cars are faster than ours ...

You need to speak for yourself dude because very, very few of those autos are faster than my manual. If you want to talk "fast" then forget that 1/4 mile crap and go to a real land speed racing event like the Texas mile and see what the real fast cars are running. I'll give you a hint, the speed record holder has a totally manual transmission. If your auto is faster than my manual at top speed you make some crazy horsepower......Josh....lol.

[PQ]

<<<<<<<<<< ------------------ Never been in any kind of accident behind the wheel of anything.


In fact, never so much as hit a curb, pole, sign guard rail etc........ Not one time in my entire life. Nothing. Nada. Zero.

Am I bragging? Maybe a little. Bonnie keeps telling me she'll be there to laugh her ass off when I do (assuming nobody is hurt) because I have always pointed it out when the conversation arose. And I"m talking about 28 years of every day driving on TOP of over a million miles behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler.

But I've probably spent more total miles WITH a cup of coffee or drink in the car with me than without. Coffee does not mean anything. If the person is dumb enough to let a drink get in the way, they will probably be dumb enough to let something else get in the way. Whether it be driving too aggressively or just too fast.

[BigBoyBlue]

No one can argue that you are not in a better position to avoid an accident if you are fully engaged in the act of driving (two hands on the controls), than if you have something in one hand that you are manipulating. There is no way anyone is a better driver with one hand on the wheel and sucking down a drink. Everyone thinks they have it under control, but a majority of accidents happen because the driver is doing something other than concentrating 100% on driving. That said, texting while driving should come with a $1,000 fine. Short of DWI I don't know of anything that causes more accidents.

Rationalize all you want.

[Whos_Drivin]

Originally Posted by BigBoyBlue

I get just as pissed at the soccer mom's in their SUVs drinking coffee, eating, or putting on makeup. Funny how you notice all of this stuff when you have a child.

I hate lamp

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by BigBoyBlue

No one can argue that you are not in a better position to avoid an accident if you are fully engaged in the act of driving (two hands on the controls), than if you have something in one hand that you are manipulating. There is no way anyone is a better driver with one hand on the wheel and sucking down a drink. Everyone thinks they have it under control, but a majority of accidents happen because the driver is doing something other than concentrating 100% on driving. That said, texting while driving should come with a $1,000 fine. Short of DWI I don't know of anything that causes more accidents.

Rationalize all you want.

Don't ever change your radio station or A/C or touch anything in the car other than the steering wheel or shifter. I guess it should be against the law to drive if you only have one arm! Come on use some common sense. Everyone takes their hand off the wheel and eyes off the road, its like anything else everything in moderation, like everyone else here said it is inattention, not a coffee cup in your hand. Are you going to tell me you have never taken your hands off the wheel or shifter?

[ZL1-V]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Don't ever change your radio station or A/C or touch anything in the car other than the steering wheel or shifter. I guess it should be against the law to drive if you only have one arm! Come on use some common sense. Everyone takes their hand off the wheel and eyes off the road, its like anything else everything in moderation, like everyone else here said it is inattention, not a coffee cup in your hand. Are you going to tell me you have never taken your hands off the wheel or shifter?

Only to point the finger at others perhaps?

[Rob3D]

That's all a bunch of jibberjabber..."because my wife can't drive a stick" is a perfectly viable answer.

[BigBoyBlue]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Don't ever change your radio station or A/C or touch anything in the car other than the steering wheel or shifter. I guess it should be against the law to drive if you only have one arm! Come on use some common sense. Everyone takes their hand off the wheel and eyes off the road, its like anything else everything in moderation, like everyone else here said it is inattention, not a coffee cup in your hand. Are you going to tell me you have never taken your hands off the wheel or shifter?

Drinking coffee is a level of inattention. You cannot react as fast as you could empty handed. My point is that any time that you take your hands/eyes off of the road, you have a higher probability of an accident. There is no arguing that point. Like I said, German engineers did not include cup holders, vanity mirrors, and other creature comforts in their cars because nothing should interfere with the driving experience. Americans are much more cavalier about driving. See someone you know die because of some a$$hat being distracted and see if your outlook changes.

The remark about one armed driving is just foolish.

[ZL1-V]

Originally Posted by BigBoyBlue

Drinking coffee is a level of inattention. You cannot react as fast as you could empty handed. My point is that any time that you take your hands/eyes off of the road, you have a higher probability of an accident. There is no arguing that point. Like I said, German engineers did not include cup holders, vanity mirrors, and other creature comforts in their cars because nothing should interfere with the driving experience. Americans are much more cavalier about driving. See someone you know die because of some a$$hat being distracted and see if your outlook changes.

The remark about one armed driving is just foolish.

So you are saying you witnessed a close person to you die in a traffic collision? I'm trying to nail down exactly your obsession as to why you get wound up with the mentioning of one hand off of the wheel. I have seen lots of people take their last breath in front of me as we cut them out of the car!

[revo1059]

Then pull the radio out, hell I recommend sealing the windows, wouldn't want to be distracted by an outside noise. Clock in the dashboard, yank it out! Tape the passengers mouth shut! You must be an absolute joy to ride with..."Don't talk to me I'm scanning the road!"

It's called common sense. Nobody is having a 5 course meal behind the wheel, but if I take a sip of a diet coke while I'm in the position to do so, my safety isn't compromised. In my FF/PM days I can't recall ONE accident I responded to that was the result of someone taking a drink of a pop/water (even the dummy who managed to drive her car under a semi in the next lane. Nobody got hurt so it was damn funny).


Texting....whole different story.