torn between the ZL1 or 1LE

[Blueclyde]

Originally Posted by 130R

Just as a ZL1 is a factory modified SS, and a Z/28 is a factory modified 1LE. The ZL1 or Z/28 are not entirely different cars, they're still both the Zeta platform with varying degrees of factory, high-peformance improvements & modifications. Improvements and modifications overseen by bean counters, and performance limited by CAFE standards, NVH, and consumer comfort. Those things are what drive the aftermarket

I think you are understating the amount of re-engineering and new content that went into the ZL1 and Z28. The 1LE is an SS with an option package comprised of many parts from the ZL1. There is just no getting around this fact.

[Blueclyde]

Originally Posted by 130R

I will not discuss conjecture. Please provide a list of components specifically re-engineered for the Z/28, other than aero. And please provide a source. Off the top of my head, all I can think of are the Multimatic shocks, spring rates, sway bars and brakes...

You're right, it's basically an SS. Get a clue.

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by 130R

I will not discuss conjecture. Please provide a list of components specifically re-engineered for the Z/28, other than aero. And please provide a source. Off the top of my head, all I can think of are the Multimatic shocks, spring rates, sway bars and brakes...

The thing at the end of the red arrow?

[Blueclyde]

...and brakes, glass, LS7, wheels, tires, body panels and so on. It's hard to argue with people that post things like this when they don't bother to become educated on the subject being discussed. The ZL1 and Z28 have more model specific DNA than they do SS DNA. As a result of these new cars, option packages like the 1LE can be offered.

I love the 1LE. I personally think the newly styled 2014 2SS with 1LE and Recaro seat option might be what I would purchase if I was getting in today. It's not a ZL1 and never will be but as Norm said, it is the best bang for the buck.

[SlingShot]

You guys are arguing with a guy with a narcissistic personality, and the only opinion that counts is his.

[StoutSnout]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

You guys are arguing with a guy with a narcissistic personality, and the only opinion that counts is his.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 130R

Dual clutch? Really? But no, if the 1LE close-ratio trans is good enough for the Z/28, it’s good enough for me… In fact, I’m pretty sure the only things the Z/28 shares with the ZL1 (that aren't available on the 1LE) are the coolers (engine, trans & diff).



That’s great! Either have I. But by all means, continue to make all the assumptions you want if it makes you feel better… Especially considering the bearing issues the Eatons on the LSA' are known to have...

Why? Don’t need ‘em. LS3’s & L99’s have proven to be very reliable at 600HP. True, the LSA will go to 750HP or so with a stock bottom end, but I have no need or use for that much power…

Look, you can continue your denial, and choose to mock my posts all you want by ignoring ALL the mods I’ve listed and fixate just on a supercharger (which, if you’ve followed along, I don’t suggest for the 1LE), but the simple fact remains, ALL the mods I’ve posted can be found for under ~13K, and will make a 1LE a better track car than a ZL1 for a total of ~$50K. That leaves $8K for blow and hookers… YEEE HAAAA!!!

Aftermarket prices can vary WILDLY. Coilovers are a perfect example. They range from 1K for all four, to $3500.00 a piece! These are low & mid-level options but NOT the absolute cheapest way to go. These after market parts also remove additional weight, keeping in mind the 1LE is already 260 pounds lighter than a ZL1 from the factory:

3-Way adjustable coilovers with stiffer than OEM spring rates: $2500.00
Adjustable, stiffer sway bars: $525.00
Firmer bushings: $1200.00
Strut tower brace: $125.00
CTS-V front 6-Piston brakes & 2-piece rotors: $1800.00
High Performance Brake pads (needed only for track days): $1000.00
Braided brake lines: $150.00
LT’s and 3” exhaust: $1400.00
Cam (all inclusive): ~$3000.00
High-flow air filter (yeah the factory box is fine): $50.00
Dyno Tune: $625.00

Total WITH track day pads: $12,375

If you’re going to do a lot of track days, you may additionally need trans, diff & oil coolers, which I haven’t priced, but would probably be in the $1K - $2K range.

$50K and a car that's over 300 pounds lighter, has a lower center of gravity, better weight distribution, similar power-to-weight, and just as reliable. All of which translates to faster acceleration, shorter stopping distance, and faster cornering speeds (unless you're on a planet where Newtonian physics don't apply)_

So there you have it, facts is facts, and facts and physics beats assumptions, conjecture and innuendo, just as badly as a properly modified 1LE will beat a ZL1, for less money…

See you at the track…

Have a nice day…

There is only one problem with this path, after you mod your 1LE it will be worth no more (possibly less) than a standard stock 1LE, folks don't want to buy modded vehicles. Just take a look in the for sale section of this forum, cars with 40-50k wrapped up in them now listed for 25k and still not selling.

A bone stock ZL1 while you pay more upfront it will maintain a MUCH better value than a modded 1LE. Something that I noticed also is there seems to be a whole lot of modded 1LEs suddenly up for sale

[Jalberdi99]

Originally Posted by paul44

IMO if your budget allows it, go for the ZL1.

[gajagfan]

I think I read it in this thread but have not been able to confirm it online. Is the engine in the ZL1 locate dn a different place (set back) than a regular SS? I think it is the LSA vs the LS3 or L99, and maybe it has to be back to clear the supercharger. I am just curious.

[Todd in Vancouver]

If I remember correctly over 30% of the ZL1 is specific to the ZL so yes it is a different car. Your logic on "I can buy a cheaper car and out race the ZL" can be said of your car and pretty much any other car out there. I can take an older IROC and gut it and spend less than the cost of your 1LE and go around a track faster than you.

In the end it will depend more on the driver than the car anyway as the car can only do so much. As it is with the internet and forums, every time a keyboard warrior takes shots at other peoples cars they say more about themselves than they do the topic at hand.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by newmoon

There is only one problem with this path, after you mod your 1LE it will be worth no more (possibly less) than a standard stock 1LE, folks don't want to buy modded vehicles. Just take a look in the for sale section of this forum, cars with 40-50k wrapped up in them now listed for 25k and still not selling.

A bone stock ZL1 while you pay more upfront it will maintain a MUCH better value than a modded 1LE. Something that I noticed also is there seems to be a whole lot of modded 1LEs suddenly up for sale

This is a really good point. From a value resale standpoint the ZL1 is going to be superior to a modded 1LE. It is somewhat rare and the resale is holding up better (just from a quick look through Ebay).

Used 1LEs on the other hand are doing no better than standards SSes with similar original list prices. SSes will take a pretty big hit once you drive them off the lot.

Another great point about mods. Unless your car is really something special, they add almost nothing to the resale price, dealers usually don't want them, and they are harder to sell.

But if all you are after is performance I would say a 1SS 1LE with a centrifugal Supercharger is every bit the performance car that a ZL1 is. Car and Driver when driving the two back to back, said the 1LE felt like a ZL1 with less motor. And with a new set of tires the 1LE could probably break three minutes at the VIR track setup they use. And on one part of the course the 1LE was a tiny bit quicker.

So if you buy a 1LE and add the SC later you can remove the SC and sell it. Currently used SC setups go for 75% of the original price. Then you have a stock 1LE to sell. Not very hard. The only fly in this ointment is the SC tune is recorded and can hurt the resale value of the car a little.

ECS says some of their customers lease cars, put on the SC, then take it off before they turn the car in.

There is some risk here, if you break things while the SC is on you will be responsible.

So in my opinion it is possible to get ZL1 performance on the cheap:

1SS 1LE: $37K + ECS Centrifugal kit installed and tuned: $7K = $44K road rocket.

The centrifugal kit can be detuned to ZL1 levels at around 525-550 RWHP with a very progressive power delivery. If you add some DRs, you can run mid 11s at the 1/4 track and run with the mid level dogs on a road track.

I am not a ZL1 hater. I would not mind having one in my garage. But I still would prefer a C7.

[StoutSnout]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

This is a really good point. From a value resale standpoint the ZL1 is going to be superior to a modded 1LE. It is somewhat rare and the resale is holding up better (just from a quick look through Ebay).

Used 1LEs on the other hand are doing no better than standards SSes with similar original list prices. SSes will take a pretty big hit once you drive them off the lot.

And great point about mods. Unless your car is really something special, they add almost nothing to the resale price, dealers usually don't want them, and they are harder to sell.

But if all you are after is performance I would say a 1SS 1LE with a centrifugal Supercharger is every bit the performance car that a ZL1 is. Car and Driver when driving the two back to back, said the 1LE felt like a ZL1 with less motor. And with a new set of tires the 1LE could probably break two minutes. And on one part of the course the 1LE was a tiny bit quicker.

So if you buy a 1LE and add the SC later you can remove the SC and sell it. Currently used SC setups go for 75% of the original price. Then you have a stock 1LE to sell. Not very hard. The only fly in this ointment is the SC tune is recorded and can hurt the resale value of the car a little.

ECS says some of their customers lease cars, put on the SC, then take it off before they turn the car in.

There is some risk here, if you break things while the SC is on you will be responsible.

So in my opinion is is possible to get ZL1 performance on the cheap:

1SS 1LE: $37K + ECS Centrifugal kit installed and tuned: $7K = $44K road rocket.

The centrifugal kit can be detuned to ZL1 levels at around 525-550 RWHP with a very progressive power delivery. If you add some DRs, you can run mid 11s at the 1/4 track and run with the mid level dogs on a road track.

Still I am not a ZL1 hater. I would not mind having one in my garage. But I still would prefer a C7.

Nice post. It shows that there isn't a cookie cutter solution for everyone, and the choice isn't a 'no brainer'. Everyone has different priorities and goals, and we make our choices accordingly.

[Blueclyde]

OP, here's the bottom line regardless of all of these posts....you really can't make a bad decision here. Either car will be awesome, really.

[CRTZL1]

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

OP, here's the bottom line regardless of all of these posts....you really can't make a bad decision here. Either car will be awesome, really.

Erase all the other posts in this thread! This guy nailed it.
And it only took 140 posts!!

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