Tune, Pulley, Long Tube Headers

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

The supercharger system is liquid cooled but the stock system has no reservoir, it just circulates the water between the heat exchangers in the airflow under the supercharger and in the grill of the car. Adding a reservoir gives an increased capacity to store and dissipate heat.

Here is a link to the pump. Most people replace the heat exchanger in the grill of the car first but my personal experience has lead me to believe that you may get more cooling gains from the pump.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...=#.Uxim6oVfTJM

While that is expensive, it would be totally worth it if offsets the extra heat generated by extra boost, IMHO. So if you were to do the pump AND heat exchanger, would that be overkill or just very effective? As long as it doesn't adversely effect drivability, reliability or hack up some existing hardware that's in place, I'm all for it. I looked into the super chiller and while it's an awesome idea, I don't want to hack up my A/C lines. I read on here that multiple people had problems with A/C freon leaks after installing the super chiller.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

While that is expensive, it would be totally worth it if offsets the extra heat generated by extra boost, IMHO. So if you were to do the pump AND heat exchanger, would that be overkill or just very effective? As long as it doesn't adversely effect drivability, reliability or hack up some existing hardware that's in place, I'm all for it. I looked into the super chiller and while it's an awesome idea, I don't want to hack up my A/C lines. I read on here that multiple people had problems with A/C freon leaks after installing the super chiller.

The pump + Heat Exchanger is not overkill.

Here is a thread with more information about the pump.

As for the chiller, I'd personally stay away from it. I had the RX Super Chiller back when I had my 2010 Camaro, and it was a terrible set up! Leaked freon and messed up the MAF sensor (because it was in the stock location post boost on my centri set up). There is another brand of chiller out there and a lot of people have had good experience with it. BUT with the huge issue I had (AC not working and I live in Texas!) I will never go that route again.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

The pump + Heat Exchanger is not overkill.

Here is a thread with more information about the pump.

As for the chiller, I'd personally stay away from it. I had the RX Super Chiller back when I had my 2010 Camaro, and it was a terrible set up! Leaked freon and messed up the MAF sensor (because it was in the stock location post boost on my centri set up). There is another brand of chiller out there and a lot of people have had good experience with it. BUT with the huge issue I had (AC not working and I live in Texas!) I will never go that route again.

Yeah, I'm not messing with a chiller, that's for sure. I just want to upgrade the stock system in a way that would seem factory.


And thanks for the link! That pump looks like an insane improvement over stock! I'm not sure if I missed something, but it's just a matter of taking the stocker pump out and replacing it with this one? According to Lingenfelter, they said the extra amps that pump draws shouldn't be a problem, as long as there is no under drive pulley.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

The pump + Heat Exchanger is not overkill.

^He is right.^

From a pure physics point of view power is all about getting the most air and fuel at the proper ratio into the engine. Fuel is relatively easy, air is tough. Specifically the oxygen portion of the air. For boost to be effective the temps must be controlled. Boyles gas law says if you double the temp at a given pressure you cut the amount of atoms present in half. So as this supercharger is stuffing air into the manifold at a given pressure, the cooler the temp the more actual oxygen molecules. It is a battle because spinning he blower at 20,000+ rpm is going to generate a lot of heat, compressing the air generates heat. So really you cannot get air too cold in any way, at best you can just make a bunch more power because you are getting a lot more air molecules into the engine.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

^He is right.^

From a pure physics point of view power is all about getting the most air and fuel at the proper ratio into the engine. Fuel is relatively easy, air is tough. Specifically the oxygen portion of the air. For boost to be effective the temps must be controlled. Boyles gas law says if you double the temp at a given pressure you cut the amount of atoms present in half. So as this supercharger is stuffing air into the manifold at a given pressure, the cooler the temp the more actual oxygen molecules. It is a battle because spinning he blower at 20,000+ rpm is going to generate a lot of heat, compressing the air generates heat. So really you cannot get air too cold in any way, at best you can just make a bunch more power because you are getting a lot more air molecules into the engine.

Is that why you swapped your blower with the 2300? Is the pump just a straight swap with the stocker, or is it more complicated then that?

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

Is that why you swapped your blower with the 2300? Is the pump just a straight swap with the stocker, or is it more complicated then that?

The main reason I swapped the 2300 in was to get more intake cooling, the larger supercharger can run at lower rpm to make the same boost. It also has a bigger intercooler under the supercharger. Haven't run all of the new parts in 100+ degree Texas heat yet but I'm pretty sure it is going to work much better than what I had before.

My pump is not in the stock location behind the radiator, it has been moved to the trunk. My reservoir is in the trunk and the battery is in the trunk. The new pump has a large amperage draw and is probably better right next to the battery. I think you could plumb it right into the stock location but the stock pump wiring would probably have to be replaced. I'm not absolutely certain of this, I'm sure if you called Lingenfelter they could give you better answers.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

The main reason I swapped the 2300 in was to get more intake cooling, the larger supercharger can run at lower rpm to make the same boost. It also has a bigger intercooler under the supercharger. Haven't run all of the new parts in 100+ degree Texas heat yet but I'm pretty sure it is going to work much better than what I had before.

My pump is not in the stock location behind the radiator, it has been moved to the trunk. My reservoir is in the trunk and the battery is in the trunk. The new pump has a large amperage draw and is probably better right next to the battery. I think you could plumb it right into the stock location but the stock pump wiring would probably have to be replaced. I'm not absolutely certain of this, I'm sure if you called Lingenfelter they could give you better answers.

And the 2300 clears the hood?

Okay, sounds good. I like the idea of it being in the trunk. I'd rather have the weight in the back rather than the nose. As long as running the wires doesn't require ripping anything up to run them, I'd be all for it. When the time comes, I'll call Lingenfelter. Thanks!

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

And the 2300 clears the hood?

Okay, sounds good. I like the idea of it being in the trunk. I'd rather have the weight in the back rather than the nose. As long as running the wires doesn't require ripping anything up to run them, I'd be all for it. When the time comes, I'll call Lingenfelter. Thanks!

The 2300 clears the hood but GM is very proud of that part. Talk about sticker shock....

http://autoplicity.com/products/2313...Fa5DMgodJWEA_g

The stock ZL1 battery is in the trunk so the modified wiring loop is less than 1 foot long. It was a great upgrade.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

The 2300 clears the hood but GM is very proud of that part. Talk about sticker shock....

http://autoplicity.com/products/2313...Fa5DMgodJWEA_g

The stock ZL1 battery is in the trunk so the modified wiring loop is less than 1 foot long. It was a great upgrade.

OUCH! Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna mess with that lol. Intake, headers, tune, pulleys and something to offset the extra heat, and I'll be happy.

In case it wasn't obvious, I like to plan WAY ahead lol. I still have to buy the car and I'm already planning all my mods!

Now I just have to decide what combo of pulleys to go with to get me to about 14 psi. 6% OD pulley and 2.55 supercharger pulley, or 11% OD pulley with the 2.55 inch supercharger pulley? Or am I way overshooting 14 psi and I only need one or the other?

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

OUCH! Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna mess with that lol. Intake, headers, tune, pulleys and something to offset the extra heat, and I'll be happy.

In case it wasn't obvious, I like to plan WAY ahead lol. I still have to buy the car and I'm already planning all my mods!

Now I just have to decide what combo of pulleys to go with to get me to about 14 psi. 6% OD pulley and 2.55 supercharger pulley, or 11% OD pulley with the 2.55 inch supercharger pulley? Or am I way overshooting 14 psi and I only need one or the other?

Building a car cost effectively is not as easy as it sounds. Lets just talk about fuel injectors for instance. If you change out pulleys you really should put in bigger injectors. Injector prices really climb for the bigger injectors. But if you pay twice as much for a set of 1000s you get no more power than what the 750's give you. But if you continue to build you have room to grow. If you put on a new throttle body before the stock unit is restricting airflow it will not do much for you. At any given point there is one part that will give you the most gain per dollar wherever you are at in your build.

So my opinion on pulleys is you should change the upper to 2.55 and don't mess with the lower until you get more cooling and maybe look at other items in the motor. If you change a pulley and injectors you have got to get a tune. I recommend you find a good local tuner. I don't know your part of the country at all but ask the tuner a few questions and if you get completely different answers than you are seeing on here I would make some more calls. There is more than one way to skin a cat but these cars have been around long enough that you can get a general consensus of what works best and what does not.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Building a car cost effectively is not as easy as it sounds. Lets just talk about fuel injectors for instance. If you change out pulleys you really should put in bigger injectors. Injector prices really climb for the bigger injectors. But if you pay twice as much for a set of 1000s you get no more power than what the 750's give you. But if you continue to build you have room to grow. If you put on a new throttle body before the stock unit is restricting airflow it will not do much for you. At any given point there is one part that will give you the most gain per dollar wherever you are at in your build.

So my opinion on pulleys is you should change the upper to 2.55 and don't mess with the lower until you get more cooling and maybe look at other items in the motor. If you change a pulley and injectors you have got to get a tune. I recommend you find a good local tuner. I don't know your part of the country at all but ask the tuner a few questions and if you get completely different answers than you are seeing on here I would make some more calls. There is more than one way to skin a cat but these cars have been around long enough that you can get a general consensus of what works best and what does not.

You are absolutely right, and I learned this the hard way with my last car. I forgot to mention injectors, I was planning on doing that with the pulley at the same time. I see a lot of people are going with the 850's.

Advice certainly taken. I'll do the 2.55 first and enjoy that for a while. Then I'll look into cooling with a lower pulley when/if I want more.

What other items in the motor are you referring to? With this car, I wanted to stick with bolt ons and avoid internal engine work (cam, heads etc.)

I did some research on tuners. I'm on the East Coast, I live on Long Island in NY. Race Proven Motorsports is within 3 hours from me, and I've read a lot of great things about them, so I thought about going there after thoroughly interrogating them on the tuning. I've been to a few more local places with my last car and wasn't too pleased, to say the least. Finding a good tuner is much more difficult then it should be, unfortunately.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

You are absolutely right, and I learned this the hard way with my last car. I forgot to mention injectors, I was planning on doing that with the pulley at the same time. I see a lot of people are going with the 850's.

Advice certainly taken. I'll do the 2.55 first and enjoy that for a while. Then I'll look into cooling with a lower pulley when/if I want more.

What other items in the motor are you referring to? With this car, I wanted to stick with bolt ons and avoid internal engine work (cam, heads etc.)

I did some research on tuners. I'm on the East Coast, I live on Long Island in NY. Race Proven Motorsports is within 3 hours from me, and I've read a lot of great things about them, so I thought about going there after thoroughly interrogating them on the tuning. I've been to a few more local places with my last car and wasn't too pleased, to say the least. Finding a good tuner is much more difficult then it should be, unfortunately.

I forgot you wanted to stay bolt-ons. I think after you get the initial boost in the supercharger it is best to change the cam to get more of the boosted air into the cylinders. If the supercharger just keeps pushing against resistance you eventually get more heat and not a lot of useable power. It may be fine for drag racing but will not work well road racing. If you change the cam and open up the heads, put on headers, you will get a drop in boost pressure but increased horsepower because the blower is just not jamming against resistance. I only run 14 pounds of boost in my car and make over 800 whp. I have a lot of cam, and ported everything....my motor flows very well. I think I have one of the best builder/tuners in the country. I know a lot of people ship cars into him from all over North America. If you ask around locally and don't feel satisfied call him and get pricing information, it may be better for you to ship your car and have him work on it. When he is done with it, you won't have any problems.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

I forgot you wanted to stay bolt-ons. I think after you get the initial boost in the supercharger it is best to change the cam to get more of the boosted air into the cylinders. If the supercharger just keeps pushing against resistance you eventually get more heat and not a lot of useable power. It may be fine for drag racing but will not work well road racing. If you change the cam and open up the heads, put on headers, you will get a drop in boost pressure but increased horsepower because the blower is just not jamming against resistance. I only run 14 pounds of boost in my car and make over 800 whp. I have a lot of cam, and ported everything....my motor flows very well. I think I have one of the best builder/tuners in the country. I know a lot of people ship cars into him from all over North America. If you ask around locally and don't feel satisfied call him and get pricing information, it may be better for you to ship your car and have him work on it. When he is done with it, you won't have any problems.

Who is your tuner?

Also, if, and only if I HAVE to do a cam, I would do a mild cam, but I definitely don't want to remove the heads. That's what caused the problem in my last build. The heads didn't seal up properly and eventually, combustion gases started seeping into the coolant, causing the coolant to pour into the overflow and not go back into the radiator when the coolant cooled down. Eventually, the overflow would overflow, I'd loose coolant slowly and the car would overheat. And that's only one problem I had. The car spent more time in the shop then with me, and whenever it was with me, I'd always have the laptop with hptuners hooked up to it, logging everything because I was paranoid that something might go wrong.

So this time around, I want to keep it as simple as possible. As long as the car meets my goals, I'll be happy. If I can trap 125mph in the quarter mile with the headers, intake, pulley and tune, then I have accomplished my goal. I want to keep this car for a long time and be able to drive it around without worry. Hell, if I just do the one pulley and it gets me to were I want, I may stop right there.

[BPG]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

Who is your tuner?

Also, if, and only if I HAVE to do a cam, I would do a mild cam, but I definitely don't want to remove the heads. That's what caused the problem in my last build. The heads didn't seal up properly and eventually, combustion gases started seeping into the coolant, causing the coolant to pour into the overflow and not go back into the radiator when the coolant cooled down. Eventually, the overflow would overflow, I'd loose coolant slowly and the car would overheat. And that's only one problem I had. The car spent more time in the shop then with me, and whenever it was with me, I'd always have the laptop with hptuners hooked up to it, logging everything because I was paranoid that something might go wrong.

So this time around, I want to keep it as simple as possible. As long as the car meets my goals, I'll be happy. If I can trap 125mph in the quarter mile with the headers, intake, pulley and tune, then I have accomplished my goal. I want to keep this car for a long time and be able to drive it around without worry. Hell, if I just do the one pulley and it gets me to were I want, I may stop right there.

For what it's worth, I trapped 120 with just a roto fab intake, 125 shouldn't take much.

I also think, from a purely cost effective side, the lower pulley is much cheaper to change instead of the upper. To do the upper, you have to have it pressed off and on and the blower needs to be pulled or the engine lowered to get the snout off. The labor associated outweighs the option of going lower only. There is a ton of people that claim the smaller contact patch for the upper causes belt slip. I don't know, or care if that's actually true, but I decided (with advice from my tuner) to go lower only. Accomplished the same goal, with less overall cost. I don't know if you want to drive to northern va, but I absolutely can not say enough good things about the shop that tuned mine. John, (1fast is his screen name here) is truly a class act. His knowledge is is amazing, and his customer service is better than anyone I have ever dealt with. He took care of my car like it was his own. Dropped the car off on Thursday around 2pm, he had the LTs, injectors and pulley installed and the car tuned before 10am the next morning. I was told by one very popular shop here they would charge me extra labor if I brought my own parts for them to install. That has to be one of the most ridiculous business practices I've ever heard of and very indicative of being out for the money only. I brought my LTs that I got at a steal and my ID850s that I also got at a steal, and he didn't charge a cent over the price if I had purchased through him. I would highly encourage you to contact him if you have any questions.