Stainless Power vs. Texas Speed Headers

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by jon6.0

I've had Kooks that didn't fit right, so spending money for a US brand isn't necessarily the solution. My buddy had to send back some ARH's as well.

Never installed 2 inch headers of any brand on a 5th gen Camaro ,only
1 7/8 . From what I have heard ( directly from him on the phone ) Joe at CPR is a big fan of and recommends KOOKS.

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by PalmerGA

Well, crap... here we go again. In this same discussion (in another thread) about a month ago, I went to the source - Stainless Works. Here is the meat of the response I received:

"Our Stainless Power headers are manufactured in China. It is our design with their material and then the finished production and inspection is done here before we send it out. These come with a two year warranty..."

FYI for comparison, the Stainless Works headers are American made & manufactured with American stainless steel (AND... American labor rates). They cost more than twice as much than the SPs, but carry a Lifetime Warranty.

You get what you pay for.

And by the way, I went to the TS site and couldn't find any info on where their headers are made or what their warranty is.

Are you mixing up the TSP with the Stainless Power? Two different brands, two different reviews within the context of this thread.


However, since you brought them up, here is what Apex has to say, and I'm requoting with copy and paste:

"The Stainless Power and Stainless Works flanges and tubing are the exact same parts. They are manufactured from the same material (304L stainless steel) at the Stainless Works facility in Ohio. After those parts are made, some of them are welded in house and receive the Stainless Works brand and others are shipped out to be welded and they receive the Stainless Power brand."

So in a nutshell, the "power" brand is simply shipped out overseas for welding.

Unlike the TSP brand, there have been no issues at all that have been reported regarding the "power" brand on fitment issues, other then the cars engine mounts themselves and engine positioning, creating an issue all on its own.

[MarylandSpeed]

Just got off the phone with StainlessWorks. The Stainless Power headers are made overseas (China) with overseas materials. They are then tested for quality in OH, and ship with Mid Pipes that are made in Ohio at StainlessWorks. They are the same mid pipes that come with the normal StainlessWorks headers.

[Camaro Dude]

^^^ Noted! Thanks!

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by jon6.0

I've had Kooks that didn't fit right, so spending money for a US brand isn't necessarily the solution. My buddy had to send back some ARH's as well.

Any product can be defective, regardless the price. That is why Rolex's and Rolls Royce cars have a warranty. I don't think anyone here has not screwed up at their job at some point, and the same goes for people working on a production line.

What matters is how often the defects happen, and how the companies stand behind the product. With anything in life, (and regardless of where it is made) there seems to be a correlation between the quality, and what you pay. For instance, Apple might make their stuff in China at the same contract manufacturers as Samsung, Dell, HP etc. But Apples standards are 10x higher than the everyone else because that is how they do things. There was a good book just released on this.

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

Are you mixing up the TSP with the Stainless Power? Two different brands, two different reviews within the context of this thread.

No, I'm not. The thread title is asking for a comparison between SP and TSP headers. I was replying to The Blur's post and noting the difference between SP and SW as an example of China made vs. American made. I couldn't find warranty or manufacturing info on TSP headers.

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

However, since you brought them up, here is what Apex has to say, and I'm requoting with copy and paste:

"The Stainless Power and Stainless Works flanges and tubing are the exact same parts. They are manufactured from the same material (304L stainless steel) at the Stainless Works facility in Ohio. After those parts are made, some of them are welded in house and receive the Stainless Works brand and others are shipped out to be welded and they receive the Stainless Power brand." So in a nutshell, the "power" brand is simply shipped out overseas for welding.

I have the utmost respect for Apex - I buy most of my mods from them - but I'm just quoting what the Customer Service guy at Stainless Works told me when I inquired about the SP headers.
Again, he said in an email:

"Our Stainless Power headers are manufactured in China. It is our design with their material and then the finished production and inspection is done here before we send it out. These come with a two year warranty..."

Does that sound like all China does is weld the parts together?

[GONIF]

The issue is QC and fit ,not where they are made. Advertise 5 pounds of quality potato's deliver 5 pounds of quality potato's. Simple as that . People who buy headers for their car expect them to fit .

[Camaro Dude]

The example and analogy MarylandSpeed brought up illustrating Apple and it's "made in China" relationship, was Spot On.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

The example and analogy MarylandSpeed brought up illustrating Apple and it's "made in China" relationship, was Spot On.

The book I read actually said that the people making Apple stuff had a higher incidence of mental problems and suicide because they were pushed so hard to meet Apple's quality standards. If you hold a Samsung phone, then an Apple phone, it would be easy to see how the QC issues would be much higher for apple.

[Camaro Dude]

Good.

I'm all for Q.C. , as long as they got paid fairly that is.

Mr. Jobs didn't F around behind closed doors with his groups.

RIP

[GONIF]

Bottom line is do they fit the vehicle you bought them for with out having to hammer the tubes to fit ? No one who bought and paid for them expected them not to fit . Let's get past where they were made . No matter the price ,they should at least fit . As far as them being fairly paid , that is between the manufacturer and the worker . If the standard of QC is not met ,it is not the fault or problem of the end user/ customer. The customer was sold a product that the manufacturer presented to fit their vehicle . If not 100% of the fault is the manufacturer . Now if their product had a disclaimer that said it may need to be fixed by the customer at their time and expense to fit their vehicle ,that would be fair . That would cut sales volume quite a bit ,so the answer still is . Deliver what you promised .

[thahemp]

If your supplier's employees are killing themselves and your supplier has to string nets between the buildings to discourage jumping, then you're doing it wrong. But hey! At least you got an awesome phone! Apple can suck it.

[Josh @ Spartan LSX]

Originally Posted by rich3fan

Can you elaborate? What exactly did you do to make them clear the frame?

I'll see if I can find some pics for you. I don't remember if we've ever took any but I'll check.

Originally Posted by GONIF

No offence to Josh and TSP ,but that "having to clearance" HAMMER TO FIT the headers is not something I find acceptable on a set of brand new headers in the 21st century

It's all relative to dollars spent, sir. I agree that having to massage a part to fit can be an inconvenience, but when you look at it in terms of saving $500-800 over the competition it suddenly becomes a much smaller inconvenience. Do not get me wrong. American Racing and Kooks make a FANTASTIC product, works of art really. But not everyone has the budget to spend $1000 on a set of headers and then pay a shop labor / tuning for install. That's where the TSP's fit into the market, and can enable those folks to still have their cake & eat it too while staying within their budget.

And we're talking about an extra 10 minutes of work, tops. I take a small propane torch to heat up the area, put a little crater in that particular primary with a ball peen hammer, and it's done. Header goes in, everybody is happy.

I hold no allegiance to any header manufacturer but we do try to be considerate of our customers budgets and find the best options possible to fit within those means. The TSP headers do that well for the 5th gen cars.

[lbheat]

Originally Posted by Josh @ Spartan LSX

I'll see if I can find some pics for you. I don't remember if we've ever took any but I'll check.



It's all relative to dollars spent, sir. I agree that having to massage a part to fit can be an inconvenience, but when you look at it in terms of saving $500-800 over the competition it suddenly becomes a much smaller inconvenience. Do not get me wrong. American Racing and Kooks make a FANTASTIC product, works of art really. But not everyone has the budget to spend $1000 on a set of headers and then pay a shop labor / tuning for install. That's where the TSP's fit into the market, and can enable those folks to still have their cake & eat it too while staying within their budget.

And we're talking about an extra 10 minutes of work, tops. I take a small propane torch to heat up the area, put a little crater in that particular primary with a ball peen hammer, and it's done. Header goes in, everybody is happy.

I hold no allegiance to any header manufacturer but we do try to be considerate of our customers budgets and find the best options possible to fit within those means. The TSP headers do that well for the 5th gen cars.

+1