Shno's House of Z - Page 1066 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Bhobbs · 08-13-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

11 second 2015 Hellcat Charger. Thoughts...

It would be nice if GM dropped a bomb on the automotive world like Dodge did with the Hellcat but I don't see that happening.

Number 3 · 08-13-2014, 12:43 PM

Just not sure the world wants a 707 hp sedan. The engine seems enticing and I'm sure there will be buyers but I think this is an answer to a question being asked by only a very few people. You could send an SS to Hennessey and get a similar car for similar money.

Just don't see GM going here. Upcoming CTS-V will be close in HP and wayyyy ahead in overall performance, although for likely 30k more than the Charger.

Not for me........would like to test drive one though

JusticePete · 08-13-2014, 01:13 PM

At 4500 pounds it is a lot of car to 'toss' around. My experience with the LX / C chassis is quite good, with a little help. A triangulated strut tower bar and rear x style brace between the rear shock towers make a huge difference. There is only toe adjustment from the factory. It does have upper front control arms.

With the Challenger base priced at $59k including GT, loaded should not be more than $70k

Bhobbs · 08-13-2014, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 3

Just not sure the world wants a 707 hp sedan. The engine seems enticing and I'm sure there will be buyers but I think this is an answer to a question being asked by only a very few people. You could send an SS to Hennessey and get a similar car for similar money.

Just don't see GM going here. Upcoming CTS-V will be close in HP and wayyyy ahead in overall performance, although for likely 30k more than the Charger.

Not for me........would like to test drive one though

If that was true, GM wouldn't be building the CTS-V and same for companies building other high performance sedans.

I don't see the CTS-V coming close to the 650 in the Z06, let alone the 707 from the Hellcat. I bet the CTS-V and ZL1 make around 600 hp.

The CTS and Camaro both benefit from being on better platforms than their competition. That isn't the case with the new Mustang and I'm sure Dodge will have a better platform for future Chargers and Challengers.

PYROLYSIS · 08-13-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

If that was true, GM wouldn't be building the CTS-V and same for companies building other high performance sedans.

I don't see the CTS-V coming close to the 650 in the Z06, let alone the 707 from the Hellcat. I bet the CTS-V and ZL1 make around 600 hp.

The CTS and Camaro both benefit from being on better platforms than their competition. That isn't the case with the new Mustang and I'm sure Dodge will have a better platform for future Chargers and Challengers.

I don't see GM purposefully restricting the power of the LT1 or LT4 in anything they put them in. While the Camaro does usually end up with lower HP than a comparable Vette, it's usually due to exhaust packaging restrictions and numbers are only down a few. With the LT4 having HP climbing to the stratosphere, the gap in output would appear smaller, not larger assuming that the motor is limited some how.

Bhobbs · 08-13-2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

I don't see GM purposefully restricting the power of the LT1 or LT4 in anything they put them in. While the Camaro does usually end up with lower HP than a comparable Vette, it's usually due to exhaust packaging restrictions and numbers are only down a few. With the LT4 having HP climbing to the stratosphere, the gap in output would appear smaller, not larger assuming that the motor is limited some how.

The LT1 will be knocked down a few hp and lb ft in the SS but I fully expect the LT4, or most likely a version of the LT4, to be significantly less powerful for the CTS-V and ZL1. I would be shocked if both cars were within 40 hp and lb ft of the Z06.

2cnd chance · 08-13-2014, 04:59 PM

The HellCat was built for 1 reason...Marketing! Dodge needed a shot in the arm badly as it was not even being compared with the Camaro and the Mustang. Now they're on magazine covers. So if you're gonna do it go BIG and they did.

I think that GM has learned from these HP wars, in that they won't hold back on the Camaro going forward. It's so different from the Corvette and CTS-V it's just of very little consideration.

Personally 707 HP is cool, however I wouldn't buy one. A highly capable handler with adequate HP is more to my liking.

ShnOmac · 08-13-2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Personally 707 HP is cool, however I wouldn't buy one. A highly capable handler with adequate HP is more to my liking.

Agreed!

JusticePete · 08-13-2014, 05:29 PM

SS 420
HC 707

To even up the HP or Handling will cost about the same.

2cnd chance · 08-13-2014, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

SS 420
HC 707

To even up the HP or Handling will cost about the same.

And I bet a lot more R&D for the handling.

2cnd chance · 08-13-2014, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Agreed!

JusticePete · 08-13-2014, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

And I bet a lot more R&D for the handling.

1.4 steady state in a Petty car.

LOWDOWN · 08-13-2014, 08:26 PM

Trying to equate a CTS-V with the Charger Hellcat is impossible. Two totally different market niches.

A near-$100K buyer would sneer at the "vulgarity" of the Charger Hellcat. A C63 AMG "Black" buyer would laugh at the Challenger version. Tarted-up Timex vs. Tag Heuer.

If Mopar was truly interested in playing in the rarefied air of Euro-Sedans and up-to-date Pony Cars (ala Gen-6 Mustang and Camaro), they'd be hustling a next-Gen Charger/Chally into fast-track (no pun) development based on something "capable" from Lancia/Alfa, to keep the development costs down and the "passion" level up (Challenger Italia!). Not until at least '18? "Stop-gap" the Clydesdales!

And that's the same problem Chev would have with an over-the-top SS. As Number 3 states, it's really a question almost no one (but Buford T. Justice and a very small few others) are asking. Charger "quicker/faster" than the Challenger? That will move the needle, artificially, over to the 4-dr side by a few units...but as a volume/profit contributor to FCA, not so much... Costs spread over two struggling lines, that desperately need propping up, is the answer, here.

GREAT "press clippings" but, other than the Automatic availability, there's precious little else that's new or overly compelling from an engineering - "new territory" p.o.v....

Look @ the poor current/potential Viper owners. Hellcat engine will NOT fit. THERE'S a car in SERIOUS trouble. Dodge/SRT spending 20-some year and $100s of millions on a car they seem to have abandoned (stop production in-play). So they come out with a 1/2-price Hellcat as a FOUR DOOR SEDAN that's trouncing it down the 1/4 mile. Nice way to treat your "true" halo...and a typical quick-fix that may cause more mayhem, internally, than it'll cause on the Main Streets of America.

Fact is, FCA decision-makers (Sergio?) would rather gain Market Share through mammoth incentives and low-ball prices than they would by offering TRULY superior products...a hot-rodded engine or two, and some truck tweaks, aside. Thank God they have JEEP, too.

JusticePete · 08-13-2014, 09:17 PM

My buddies from the Bears in the 80s used to say there is no such thing as bad pub.

08-13-2014, 12:43 PM	#14912
Number 3 Hail to the King baby! Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 12,307 View My Garage	Just not sure the world wants a 707 hp sedan. The engine seems enticing and I'm sure there will be buyers but I think this is an answer to a question being asked by only a very few people. You could send an SS to Hennessey and get a similar car for similar money. Just don't see GM going here. Upcoming CTS-V will be close in HP and wayyyy ahead in overall performance, although for likely 30k more than the Charger. Not for me........would like to test drive one though __________________ "Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley

08-13-2014, 04:59 PM	#14917
2cnd chance Too Many Great Choices Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: A Mountain Road Posts: 7,454	The HellCat was built for 1 reason...Marketing! Dodge needed a shot in the arm badly as it was not even being compared with the Camaro and the Mustang. Now they're on magazine covers. So if you're gonna do it go BIG and they did. I think that GM has learned from these HP wars, in that they won't hold back on the Camaro going forward. It's so different from the Corvette and CTS-V it's just of very little consideration. Personally 707 HP is cool, however I wouldn't buy one. A highly capable handler with adequate HP is more to my liking. __________________

08-13-2014, 08:26 PM	#14923
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 4,145	Trying to equate a CTS-V with the Charger Hellcat is impossible. Two totally different market niches. A near-$100K buyer would sneer at the "vulgarity" of the Charger Hellcat. A C63 AMG "Black" buyer would laugh at the Challenger version. Tarted-up Timex vs. Tag Heuer. If Mopar was truly interested in playing in the rarefied air of Euro-Sedans and up-to-date Pony Cars (ala Gen-6 Mustang and Camaro), they'd be hustling a next-Gen Charger/Chally into fast-track (no pun) development based on something "capable" from Lancia/Alfa, to keep the development costs down and the "passion" level up (Challenger Italia!). Not until at least '18? "Stop-gap" the Clydesdales! And that's the same problem Chev would have with an over-the-top SS. As Number 3 states, it's really a question almost no one (but Buford T. Justice and a very small few others) are asking. Charger "quicker/faster" than the Challenger? That will move the needle, artificially, over to the 4-dr side by a few units...but as a volume/profit contributor to FCA, not so much... Costs spread over two struggling lines, that desperately need propping up, is the answer, here. GREAT "press clippings" but, other than the Automatic availability, there's precious little else that's new or overly compelling from an engineering - "new territory" p.o.v.... Look @ the poor current/potential Viper owners. Hellcat engine will NOT fit. THERE'S a car in SERIOUS trouble. Dodge/SRT spending 20-some year and $100s of millions on a car they seem to have abandoned (stop production in-play). So they come out with a 1/2-price Hellcat as a FOUR DOOR SEDAN that's trouncing it down the 1/4 mile. Nice way to treat your "true" halo...and a typical quick-fix that may cause more mayhem, internally, than it'll cause on the Main Streets of America. Fact is, FCA decision-makers (Sergio?) would rather gain Market Share through mammoth incentives and low-ball prices than they would by offering TRULY superior products...a hot-rodded engine or two, and some truck tweaks, aside. Thank God they have JEEP, too. Last edited by LOWDOWN; 08-13-2014 at 08:48 PM.

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08-13-2014, 01:13 PM	#14913
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,171	At 4500 pounds it is a lot of car to 'toss' around. My experience with the LX / C chassis is quite good, with a little help. A triangulated strut tower bar and rear x style brace between the rear shock towers make a huge difference. There is only toe adjustment from the factory. It does have upper front control arms. With the Challenger base priced at $59k including GT, loaded should not be more than $70k

08-13-2014, 05:29 PM	#14919
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,171	SS 420 HC 707 To even up the HP or Handling will cost about the same.

08-13-2014, 09:17 PM	#14924
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,171	My buddies from the Bears in the 80s used to say there is no such thing as bad pub.