Orbital buffer vs. hand wax

[scandata]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

Holograms caused by very poor technique. Just study up a bit and go slow with the PC and products.
There are many videos on YT here is one that I like. This should be enough to get you started.

That's a GREAT video. Very informative. I'll be using Meguiar's products, but I'm thinking their Ultimate Polish would be good for removing swirls.

One thing I'm not clear on: doesn't polishing reduce the life of the paint by slowly grinding away the finish? Once the swirls are out, isn't it better to just use a non-abrasive polish (such as Meguiar's Deep Crystal Polish) after waxing?

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by scandata

That's a GREAT video. Very informative. I'll be using Meguiar's products, but I'm thinking their Ultimate Polish would be good for removing swirls.

One thing I'm not clear on: doesn't polishing reduce the life of the paint by slowly grinding away the finish? Once the swirls are out, isn't it better to just use a non-abrasive polish (such as Meguiar's Deep Crystal Polish) after waxing?

Megs is good for off the shelf. There are better products in the comprehensive section. I would research products there before commiting to OTS products. There are all sorts of options such as sealants, glass coatings. Glass coating are the most durable, like a second clear coat. I am using this combo.

http://gtechniqna.com/exterior-coati...ystal-lacquer/


Yes paint correction/polishing removes the clear coat. All polishes contain abrasives in varying levels. Once the swirls are out proper washing/cleaning is necessary to minimize creating them in the process. I use waterless wash with good results.

[mpiersd]

subscribed. Good info here.

[DylanVK]

Originally Posted by scandata

One thing I'm not clear on: doesn't polishing reduce the life of the paint by slowly grinding away the finish? Once the swirls are out, isn't it better to just use a non-abrasive polish (such as Meguiar's Deep Crystal Polish) after waxing?

Thats actually a very common question/assumption - but a bit of an unfounded fear.

Does compounding/polishing remove some amount of your clear coat surface? Yes, but I wouldn't call it 'grinding' as that implies you're removing tons of material. The reality is that most polishes will remove only a microscopic layer of your clear coat - heres the rough numbers:

An average car will have a clear coat thickness of somewhere in the 2 mils range and one 1 mil is 0.001 inch (or 0.0254mm) so your clear coat is somewhere around 0.002" thick or 0.0508mm thick when it leaves the factory.

Doesn't sound like much right? Well its actually a fair amount when you consider how much clear is actually abraded in polishing. For that we convert over to microns.

For reference: 1mm = 1000 microns, so our example clear coat thickness of 2 mils has a micron thickness around 50 microns. (0.0508 x 1000) Could be more, could be less depending on the vehicle, but we'll use this as they hypothetical.

My experience, and corroborating info from various sources in the industry you can expect to remove anywhere between 1-4 microns of clear depending on your chemical, pad, and machine choice - most common swirl marks and light defects are going to be in the 1-2 micron range while deeper damage, RIDS, etc will be 2-4 microns or even more so depending on what you're correcting the amount of material you remove will vary - this is why the 'use the least aggressive method first' approach comes into play. No sense in removing more material than necessary.

So all that being said - if you stick to fairly average correction work at 1-2 microns per time you have somewhere in the range of 25-50 full corrections of a paint job before you begin to dip into the area where you're getting into the base coat.

THE GOAL ultimately is to limit the amount of correction you have to do on a regular basis. If you can do a good job of washing properly, limiting the damage, and only do very light correction as touchup every 6 months at an average of 1.5 microns per correction you would over 16 years of ownership. And thats assuming you do the same amount of correction on the car each time... if you're good about practicing good wash habits it could be far less.

Long story short - do your big correction once, do a good job of maintaining the paint, and you'll never need to worry about it.

[45thAnniversary2SS]

^^ Awesome info! Thanks!

[scandata]

Wow, so much info and so many choices I never knew existed - it's like every question I have spawns two more! I hadn't realized what an art form detailing can be. Since I just received my PC 7424XP and have never used (any) buffer before, I'll probably just use it to wax first, just to get a feel of using it before doing any correction work.

Dylan:
Thanks for the thorough explanation, . That really sums up the "damaging clear coat" Q & A nicely. It was for that reason that I was originally hesitant to do any corrections because my car is 2014 and has very minimal scratches - you actually have to look for them to see them. But after reading your depth comparisons I feel much more at ease about it. Your closing sentence says it best: "do your big correction once, do a good job of maintaining the paint, and you'll never need to worry about it."

Nor Cal: I'll look into some of those pro products before I do any work. I'm sure they cost a bit more than the OTC stuff I've been using, but if it gives me the best results possible, I don't mind biting the bullet and paying extra.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Dylan, very good info about the CC depth and aprox corrections possible.

Scandata, I use a variety of things including products that Dylan's company sells. Many of the professional level products yield great results. Each one has a product or two that stands out.
I have products from Adams, SCG, Wolfsgangs as in the Video, Rejex, Gtechniq. Best of luck in your detailing quest.

[DylanVK]

Originally Posted by scandata

Wow, so much info and so many choices I never knew existed - it's like every question I have spawns two more! I hadn't realized what an art form detailing can be. Since I just received my PC 7424XP and have never used (any) buffer before, I'll probably just use it to wax first, just to get a feel of using it before doing any correction work.

Dylan:
Thanks for the thorough explanation, . That really sums up the "damaging clear coat" Q & A nicely. It was for that reason that I was originally hesitant to do any corrections because my car is 2014 and has very minimal scratches - you actually have to look for them to see them. But after reading your depth comparisons I feel much more at ease about it. Your closing sentence says it best: "do your big correction once, do a good job of maintaining the paint, and you'll never need to worry about it."

Nor Cal: I'll look into some of those pro products before I do any work. I'm sure they cost a bit more than the OTC stuff I've been using, but if it gives me the best results possible, I don't mind biting the bullet and paying extra.

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

Dylan, very good info about the CC depth and aprox corrections possible.

Scandata, I use a variety of things including products that Dylan's company sells. Many of the professional level products yield great results. Each one has a product or two that stands out.
I have products from Adams, SCG, Wolfsgangs as in the Video, Rejex, Gtechniq. Best of luck in your detailing quest.

Glad I could help guys - for anyone looking for more info on the subject I just happened to be in the middle of writing a tech tip article on this subject when it came up. The entire writeup can be read on our fourms:

http://www.surfcitygarageforums.com/...oat-thickness/

[scandata]

Great write-up, Dylan - I'm bookmarking that one!

[scandata]

What a difference detailing makes! (LOL)

[DylanVK]

Ya know... no matter how much I rub on my wifes Equinox it never turned into a Lambo. Heck, I'd settle for it turning into a Tahoe