Z06 vs Viper T/A

[mlee]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

I recognize your screen name from back in the day on LS1.com.

I'm talking like waaay back in the early F-car days.

I assume you are the same Tony/Nineball who has been around these forums for a long while?

Yes, same same.

...and we did hit the track last week. Viper TA was king there too and we had a lot of bad ass cars running.

This is as close as I got and he probably lapped me before the session was over LOL..

[hockeylover86]

Originally Posted by mlee

Yes, same same.

...and we did hit the track last week. Viper TA was king there too and we had a lot of bad ass cars running.

This is as close as I got and he probably lapped me before the session was over LOL..
Attachment 679823

I thought so..

What fantastic cars we have to choose from now compared to back then..

This is raising as much of a stir as the hot-rod mag dyno that showed the Firebird RWHP higher than the C5 Vette..

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Some people are starting to call for a class action lawsuit against GM for it.

No doubt, this idea was first floated by a compen$ation-$eeking lawyer.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

I thought so..

What fantastic cars we have to choose from now compared to back then..

This is raising as much of a stir as the hot-rod mag dyno that showed the Firebird RWHP higher than the C5 Vette..

This is so true...

The good thing about this one is there is no magazine or shop bias involved. The internet is just taking it and running wild. Pretty comical IMO

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

Hello guys. Funny discussion going on in here. I'm not surprised to see the common excuses for the Z06 being posted here, as everywhere. The main reason that the internet blew up over this race, is because of how much the media hyped up the Z06 for the last year. They claimed "bye bye ZR1" and "will beat Viper" and all sorts of stuff. Even the C7Z06 fans were talking down to the ZR1 owners, saying their cars were obsolete. Then they announced the 650/650 and the Z06 fans got even more hyped up. Wow! We're going to have ZR1 exceeding performance for less than ZR1s cost new!!

In fact, even the owner of the Z06 and myself believed this hype. Especially after early cars were showing MORE than 650 crank hp on dyno's. This particular car in the race put down 579 rwhp, with only 200 miles on it. It was broken in, so quit using that excuse. The Viper only had 1700 miles, both are brand new cars. We put the first 1000 miles on that Viper in the first week we owned it.

As for the "well, let's see it on the roadcourse." stuff? How many Corvette guys actually road race? I know very few, and I know a LOT of owners. The roadcourse is going to be determined by who is holding the steering wheel. Both cars are capable, in that regard, at the top of the heap. Even the pros will have troubles driving either car to the limit, because both cars make more power and have less grip than their actual racecars do. Go check the stats on the ALMS cars, they make less power than the street cars do (restricted). That being said, I happen to road-race my cars. MLee will tell you what the TA can do, we raced together a week ago. I look forward to trying out the C7 Z06 soon.

Tony

Got any buddies with a Hellcat Challenger who can come out to play in Mexico, I'd love to see how it holds up against the Viper and Z06 considering its weight. It would be interesting to see if it also suffers from severe heat soak or over conservative tuning.

[Loading.....]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Got any buddies with a Hellcat Challenger who can come out to play in Mexico, I'd love to see how it holds up against the Viper and Z06 considering its weight. It would be interesting to see if it also suffers from severe heat soak or over conservative tuning.

The Hellcat twins will be monsters doing roll races. Weight does not play to much of an factor when cars are already moving, so It should be an interesting match-up.

[Nine Ball]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Got any buddies with a Hellcat Challenger who can come out to play in Mexico, I'd love to see how it holds up against the Viper and Z06 considering its weight. It would be interesting to see if it also suffers from severe heat soak or over conservative tuning.

I have a good friend that ordered one, but it won't be here for another 2-3 months. I feel the Hellcat might be over-hyped, just like the C7 Z06 is. But, with similar trap speeds between those two, it might be a door to door race on the highway. That will surely make the Corvette sites implode again. In the Viper, I don't have any worries about the Hellcats, they trap a good 2 mph slower than the Viper does. At the dragstrip, the automatic Hellcats should be good, as long as the owners get rid of those puny 285? wide street tires. Those cars will be traction challenged, no doubt.

Heavy cars can run fast. Look at the CTS-V, for example. Hellcat will have at least 120-150 rwhp more than a CTS-V. Kind of scary, haha.

Tony

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

No doubt, this idea was first floated by a compen$ation-$eeking lawyer.

Isn't that how just about every law suit starts lol

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

Hello guys. Funny discussion going on in here.

This particular car in the race put down 579 rwhp, with only 200 miles on it. It was broken in, so quit using that excuse.

Tony

How many dyno runs were made? Has it seen a dyno, since? Were high IATs present on any runs?

Has any follow-up been done on this particular car to see what parameters were exceeded, and then what exactly the ECU does/doesn't do to compensate?

It seems to me there's a golden opportunity, present, to diagnose, clarify and assist, instead of leaving the impression this is simply an overhyped engine.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

The roadcourse is going to be determined by who is holding the steering wheel.

That being said, I happen to road-race my cars. MLee will tell you what the TA can do, we raced together a week ago. I look forward to trying out the C7 Z06 soon.

Tony

I've always said HPD times are 80% driver, 20% car and you sure proved that. Not only in the Viper but in that 1LE too. I was surprised when you caught and passed me, one hell of a driver you are!

[hockeylover86]

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

I have a good friend that ordered one, but it won't be here for another 2-3 months. I feel the Hellcat might be over-hyped, just like the C7 Z06 is. But, with similar trap speeds between those two, it might be a door to door race on the highway. That will surely make the Corvette sites implode again. In the Viper, I don't have any worries about the Hellcats, they trap a good 2 mph slower than the Viper does. At the dragstrip, the automatic Hellcats should be good, as long as the owners get rid of those puny 285? wide street tires. Those cars will be traction challenged, no doubt.

Heavy cars can run fast. Look at the CTS-V, for example. Hellcat will have at least 120-150 rwhp more than a CTS-V. Kind of scary, haha.

Tony

Hellcats are running 275's, but will launch ok with the A8.

Trap speeds for them seem lower than expected, a while back I had talked to someone close to SRT and they said the Hellcat Challenger was faster 60-140 than the Viper. I really think there is alot left in the Hellcat, SRT even said they tested at 825hp at one point. If tuners ever crack the PCM..

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The problem is that GM has marketed the C7 Z06 as a 650hp car, but has hidden the fact that after X amount of time, due to emissions and safety, the car pulls timing and derates from the advertised power level and the only way to avoid that is the have an aftermarket tune.

Some people are starting to call for a class action lawsuit against GM for it, ala the 99 Cobra. Jalopnik has gotten ahold the story...

http://jalopnik.com/2015-corvette-z0...-to-1669754727

If the ECU is pulling power until after the break in..then GM needs to disclose that NOW. Not later, not after pressure, NOW.

That's what this article claims:

http://www.corvetteforum.com/article...let-car-break/

[Todd in Vancouver]

I was reading an article today that said an insider at GM is claiming that there is countdown clock in the ECM that will cut power until the car is properly broken in. Not sure how that works but its an interesting pont of view and especially if the new Z06 has a 1,500 break in like our Camaros. Now I'm curious to see what happens once these cars get a few thousand miles on them.


http://www.corvetteforum.com/article...ak/?fbcorvette

.

[Nine Ball]

The "conservative ECU" stuff is just an excuse that was deployed by ONE blog site, without any real proof. It might have also been taken out of context, as the original response was never posted in its entirety. Thus far, GM has not issued any official statement. The other bloggers simply latched on to that excuse of conservative ECU tuning, and ran with it. Anyone that knows anything about modern cars, will agree that EVERY vehicle built has a conservative factory tune. They have to leave room for error, and tune the cars to survive in all climates and elevation differences. They also have to tune for max 91 octane, as not every state gets 93.

The early dyno tests being done have proven that the C7Z06 is making its rated performance number, sometimes even higher than its rated hp. Even the cars losing 20 rwhp on the dyno from being hot, are still producing 650 crank hp.

BTW, even Vipers pick up 30-40 rwhp from a basic custom tune. Like I said, every car has a conservative tune from the factory.

Tony