This is how Chevy treats my $45,000 "track ready" car

[RockerBox]

If you expect GM to warranty anything used on a racetrack then I guess you haven't been into cars long.

[backeddy]

If I would have know the lack of support (at least LOOK at it), I wouldn't be here, I would be driving an Excige or ???? I left Chevy 20 years ago due to a Silverado issue. I bought this car because A. it is pretty bad ass for 40k, B. it is track capable with almost any stock car. C. I ASSUMED they would take care of me because this is not a $15,000 Cobalt with a big muffler (pun).

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by strych9

I think I spelled it out well here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=24

Originally Posted by strych9

I get so disgusted with the warranty chatter on this site, because everybody posts up things they've read, heard, or formed their own opinion on. As a former new-car dealership service manager, I can tell you from experience that:

1. All warranty claims are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. There are NO absolutes. All warranties are LIMITED and CONDITIONAL.
2. The dealer holds the cards. If they say no to a warranty repair with supporting reasons behind the decision, the automaker will back them.
3. If you disagree with a decision that has been made, you have dispute procedures available to you if you wish to pursue them.
4. Any modifications that you make to your car could be scrutinized and blamed for any type of failure. When you mod, you are openly risking a denied warranty claim. Courts favor the dealer in these cases because their written warranties ALL have disclaimers concerning modifications.
5. You are naive if you think that GM's "track warranty" on the ZL1 will grant you immunity from warranty denial. One word: abuse. No warranty will cover abuse. Sure, you can track your car and break something. If deemed a failure due to parts and/or workmanship, they will cover it. If you do a 6k RPM launch and break an axle, guess again. The failure WILL be scrutinized, and if labeled as abuse, you're SOL. Therefore, so-called ZL1 "track warranty" is exactly the same as the rest of the Camaro line, with the exception of the, "you track it and break it, you own it" disclaimer that is excluded from the ZL1 warranty.

Summary: you mod it, assume your warranty is gone. All risks are yours at that point. In most cases, simple mods won't create an issue, but they certainly could. You tune the ECM, chip it, whatever...game over; you just gave up your powertrain warranty. Internal engine/transmission/differential mods, again...the dealer may attempt to blame your equipment on a given failure, and the burden of proof now falls on your shoulders to prove otherwise.

This is how vehicle warranty really works. You may get away with a few things because your dealer wants your continued business, but just know that GMs warranty is very clear, and in big-ticket failures, don't be surprised if they won't help you if any of the above applies.

Can you please comment on the Z28 warranty if possible please?

I'm trying to put 2+2 together here.

Originally Posted by Bizaro

I also have to add yes driver error can and will cause grinding and clutch problems but please when you start googling peoples problems with this shitty tremec6060 transmission you start seeing a pattern and its not just camaros everything from corvettes to mustangs are having these issues evidence have me concur with GONIF that its a design flaw.

Actually, the Tremec on your 1LE is quite robust. I'd be hard-pressed if it were it at at fault in your case. The irony is, that if it turned out to be your transmission after all , a fault in the clutch system may have caused this chain reaction.

Of course, only speculation for now, let's see what your dealer says.

[9020B]

Originally Posted by X25

Nissan voided your warranty if you owned a 2009 GT-R and used its launch control (that is standard) 5 times. Mitsubishi used to check out HPDE events and void your warranty if your EvoX showed up at an event. Mercedes owners don't have track use warranty, period. I don't know why you think other companies would be any better. Actually, Japanaese brands are the worst as far as I know.

This doesn't sound right. You should change dealer for sure, and appeal at a different dealer, and at least get their second opinion. If you're in CA, Abel Chevy is highly recommended. Just do the trip.

Reminds me of the issues the Raptor has when it is being driven like it is advertised to be built for, Ford is not real cooperative on their warranty program either on their specialty vehicles.

[Mark T]

I know I am sitting on the fence here about this, trying to understand both sides the best I can...

I work in a failure analysis and correction position in major industrial environments. The equipment I see are complex electronic systems and mechanical equipment. You would not believe how much this crap costs in manufacturing. And the warranties in this equipment are a pos compared to consumer level products.

I can have a brand new 20,000$ motor controller die in a month or 10 years. Either way when it does you yank out the controller and put in a new one.

Consumer products are not built to industrial standards and could never be expected to last in a manufacturing or industrial environment.

The SS Camaro is a consumer product and would never hit a NASCAR track in purchased form. It would fail in short order. But when NASCAR ready Camaros fail, they toss the junk and put in new. No whining, just alot of engineers doing failure analysis after the fact.


That is the only thing that will keep this thread from degrading further than it has.

It is ok to line up 20 cars with failed clutches. But it is not ok for 20 people to band together and complain about it without comparing the results of true failure analysis and honest usage comparisons. It is likely if there are 20 "similar" failures, one may find out that analysis shows multiple unique points of failure lending to similar symptoms to the casual observer.

For this and the other clutch threads, words will fall on deaf ears unless usage/failure symptoms/AND supporting actual service records showing exactly what failed in each case are shown.

That is what will bias my opinion more and that is what will bias chevy.

[TxBandit911]

Originally Posted by Bizaro

what a condescending and immature post GM fanboys get like that when their GM gets shitted on tsk tsk

Thanks for answering the questions I asked to better form an educated opinion on your specific problem.

Its so condescending to pretty much agree with you that our clutch hydraulic system is far from perfect.

I guess the problem is that I'm not crying about it...

[1KillerSS]

Like I said, this has really got my interest.

So I was unable to sleep last night, like usual, and I wanted to actually look at the "fine print" that GM uses. I don't know about you, or anybody else, but I never actually read a warranty card, nor did I every, actually read through my owners manual. Not once, out of the last three new GM vehicles, two cars and a Truck, have I actually read them. Also I might add that I never insisted on reading them BEFORE I bought them.

I was hoping to find more, maybe I didn't look hard enough or long enough or in the right places, but all I could find was the basic warranty card for GM vehicles that covers the Chevy Volt and Duramax diesel engine power plants.

I figured with the Z/28 on the market I would find something even more specific to that. I could not. So take what I say and post with a grain of salt, truth is, i'm not very good at searching and I am frequently wrong.

So because I couldn't find anything, I went direct to GM's website and into owners manual, then to the warranty card sections. I assumed that the warranty cards would be as model specific as the owners manual was. Not what I found.

[Kiteboarder85]

Nice, a step by step work process page.

I bet this wouldn't be that bad to bypass for the OP if the tension and heated conversations with dealerships are left out. I will bet anything that the OP had escalated his voice to the dealership which only makes things worse.

Now that the OP has posted dozens of times with video that he's been tracking, the GM customer service on the forums have every right to stand behind their policy.

Thanks for posting the manual literature. I probably wouldn't have read this before my 1LE is done being built.

[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by Kiteboarder85

Nice, a step by step work process page.

I bet this wouldn't be that bad to bypass for the OP if the tension and heated conversations with dealerships are left out. I will bet anything that the OP had escalated his voice to the dealership which only makes things worse.

Now that the OP has posted dozens of times with video that he's been tracking, the GM customer service on the forums have every right to stand behind their policy.

Thanks for posting the manual literature. I probably wouldn't have read this before my 1LE is done being built.

Well that's what kinda made me, the fact that I have bought my last three GM vehicles without so much as a glance at either the manual or card.

I honestly hope I missed something and that there is more information handed out to consumers other than what I just found, don't get me wrong there is pages of that stuff but not much meat and potatoes.

[XxScottxXN]

My .02!! If you're gonna tell them that you have been racing your car...you better have the $$ to fix the damage yourself...otherwise...what they don't know won't hurt YOU!!!

[Kiteboarder85]

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

Well that's what kinda made me, the fact that I have bought my last three GM vehicles without so much as a glance at either the manual or card.

I honestly hope I missed something and that there is more information handed out to consumers other than what I just found, don't get me wrong there is pages of that stuff but not much meat and potatoes.

An easy way of sealing the hassle would be to have a disclaimer on a separate piece of paper at the purchase signing and explaining that racing/track will void your warranty - then sign.

[USMUCL]

When the topic of "mods vs. warranty" comes up, most folks will conclude that the modifications must be to blame for the condition before warranty is denied. Making that connection can result in some arguments, but many times it is black & white (e.g. tune the car and they won't warranty the motor grenading, but lowing the car will not preclude warranty for said blown motor).

Point here, even though the warranty card is worded like GM can simply walk away from the warranty with the first mod, we know that is not true.

Here, it seems everyone is quick to say, "if you track it, the warranty is gone." In reality, do they not need to establish that the "abuse" of the car, i.e. the track time, was the reason for the condition?

Perhaps there is no case law or legisative law on track time like there is with warranties (Magnuson Act). Anyone?

[ForcFed93]

Originally Posted by USMUCL

Perhaps there is no case law or legisative law on track time like there is with warranties (Magnuson Act). Anyone?

No. Think about the markets for that. How many deep pocketed aftermarket companies (and the groups that represent them) versus how many deep pocketed tracks?

Second, they don't have to prove anything to you. When it boils down to it, all they have to do is convince a judge and their lawyers are going to do that well.

[partymn]

We all understand what is in the manual, its not hard to comprehend. I can also understand the position of the OP. I took my car in to get nitrogen put back in the tires and got spoken to about all the rubber in the fender wells. I simply went on a very calm tangent about how the original equipment tires were so soft and the gearing so steep that the 90+ degree weather over the summer was causing me to break the tires loose with almost no effort. With the tires being so soft and sticky they shed rubber and that was what they were seeing in the fender wells. Conversation was over after that. Was it a lie? To some extent it was but at the same time it was factual information as well.

OP, you posted a reply from GM earlier in the thread that stated that the warranty was not voided. Did something change or are they simply refusing to fix the transmission? If this is the case you may need to go ahead and fix the car and go after them in small claims court after the fact. I recommend going to an after market clutch and remote reservoir, all of the good clutches come with matched slave cylinders which together will minimize your problem. Changing the synchros may have to be your next option to eliminate the problem all together. The car is just to good to give up on.