Finding more weak spots on the ZL1 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

JamesZL1 · 01-30-2015, 09:33 PM

Recently I added an upper pulley to the mods listed below (yeah the upper is on there now as well). I got a wide band tune and didn't check it on the Dyno ending up in 3 tips being melted off of the plugs. Turned out that fuel pressure was dropping off and the car went lean. I added a Kenne Bell BAP and now the fuel pressure is holding fast at 65 lbs at WOT. I have since dyno'd the car and they made about 30 pulls with it. It's making 610 HP with 601 Torque. Its an A6, I thought it would make more, but on 91 pump gas, thats about the best they could do. I added a can of Torco and they added some timing and got it up to 619 HP, but I'm not going to run Torco all the time, so I had them put the car back to safe levels on 91. The car is making 15 lbs. of boost after the pulley swaps and I recently started to notice a couple of oil drops under the car in my Shop. I have also started to notice a puff of white smoke at start up (just for a second, then it goes away). I took the car to the shop that built my car and had them check it out. The back of the motor (where it meets up with the tranny) is wet and I noticed a couple of spots where the oil was about to drip off of a bolt. They think that it is either the rear main seal or the oil pan gasket (16,000 miles on the car). They also said that the puff of smoke is either the valve seals or excess oil burning off from the blower on startup. They recommend that I install a catch can to see if it helps. They think it might be crankcase pressure from the 15 lbs. of boost and that the catch can will help with this issue. At any rate, they said that they would replace the valve seals if it does not and I think I can get the dealer to warranty the oil leak. Again, its not really bad, just a couple of drops, but now I really don't want to get into the boost for fear of further damage to the seal that is leaking. Catch can will be ordered next week. I also want to add, no work has been done to the car that would have caused this leak, so is it possible that the boost caused this issue? does this sound right to anyone on C5?

KaBoom1701 · 01-30-2015, 09:41 PM

Catch can needed....

Your blew your rear main seal with too much pressure....

Stephen12ZL1 · 01-30-2015, 09:55 PM

Catch can needed or a crankcase breather to vent the excess crankcase pressure. Otherwise, it has no where to go except to start blowing out oil seals such as the rear main, etc. At stock 8.6 psi, this isn't an issue but at 15psi there has to be a purge somewhere. Ask Smitty...he has had issue from a bad check valve in his catch can builiding crankcase pressure. He is all fixed now.

DrkPhx · 01-31-2015, 09:33 AM

The LSA is a stout motor even with mods; but it's not invunerable. Given your recent misfortune with the melted plugs; it could be pointing to a serious issue. I could see the rear seal leaking as they are prone to do that on LS motors, but usually with higher miles. It's a simple replacement, but the trans has to come out for access. The white smoke on start up could be a reason for concern. If it's indeed the valve seals, they can be replaced. If it's not just normal vapor from moisture in the exhaust, it could be an internal coolant leak. I would keep an eye on the coolant and oil level and pressure test the cooling system and do a leak down and compression test on the motor. My .02

1MtnGoat · 01-31-2015, 11:06 AM

I had an occasional puff of white smoke on start up. I also needed to add coolant to the intercooler system. About 1/2 cup a month. There never were any external leaks. I suspected an internal leak. When they replaced the S/C I talked to the tech about it and he discovered that the o-rings which seal the piping to the "brick" in the S/C lid were leaking.

NicKey · 01-31-2015, 12:18 PM

Generally;

White Smoke is Water / Coolant

Blue Smoke is Oil

Black Smoke is fuel

If your engine got hot enough due to the over lean condition to melt the plugs, I would scope the cylinders, run a compression and leak down test, just to make certain that there are no other issues.

As mentioned prior, you do need to relieve the excess crankcase pressure and yes this can be the cause of your oil leak.

Emvici · 01-31-2015, 12:44 PM

30x times on the dyno?. if it takes that many times to get things right, I would be questioning the mechanic alittle. Not to be obvious but stress on motors is what blows seals. replace the rear main seals and don't over stress the motor any more and you might be ok.

cbarile · 01-31-2015, 01:20 PM

People reading james story should really pay attention as to how important it is to get your car on a dyno to check your air/fuel along with other things after a pulley change or other mods. He could have easily melted pistons if he already hasn't. For those guys getting mail order tunes never trust a mail order tune without having your air/fuel checked no mater who the tune is from. Getting your air/fuel checked is the cheapest insurance to insure you dont hurt your motor.

LuckyZL-1 · 01-31-2015, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emvici

30x times on the dyno?. if it takes that many times to get things right, I would be questioning the mechanic alittle. Not to be obvious but stress on motors is what blows seals. replace the rear main seals and don't over stress the motor any more and you might be ok.

+1 30???

SamHouseIII · 01-31-2015, 06:48 PM

Damn James, sorry to hear that, hoping you get it figured out.

Bo White · 01-31-2015, 08:26 PM

30 passes to get a tune right is worse than 3 in my book.

JamesZL1 · 01-31-2015, 10:23 PM

30 pulls have been made on the car at that shop...A few were made previously when they found out that the fuel pressure was dropping off. He took all the timing out of the car till I could get the BAP and have it installed...He checked the tune and made it safe to dive home so I could keep it in my shop till they could install the BAP. Then after the BAP was installed he made several hits on the car. he was making some adjustments to the tune and making sure the fuel pressure was holding before he started tuning on the car. We started looking at the Dyno chart because the car stops making power right at 6250 RPM's (Where the stock rev limiter was at). We compared it to several other ZL1's and CTSV's and they continued to make power up to about 6500 RPM. Then we looked at the original tune that was done on the car when it was stock with a CAI and the chart was the same up top. I am guessing that it is because I have an A6. We also compared it to my dads Lingenfelter ZL1 and his chart looks the same up top (A6 as well). I know some of the pulls they were trying to see if they could fix that power drop up top, but it seems to just be a characteristic of the A6.

Stephen12ZL1 · 02-01-2015, 07:01 AM

with the stock cam, my car is done at 6200rpm...I have never heard of a stock cam LSA pushing to 6500rpm still making power.

Chrispy · 02-01-2015, 07:28 AM

Sounds like a couple of things might have happened/happening.
1 - You might have lifted the heads/warped slightly when you killed the plugs and went lean
2 - Crankcase pressure
3 - I'd have the shop do a compression check You may have hurt a ringland(s).

The ZL1 is very strong but as others said not invulnerable.

01-30-2015, 09:33 PM	#1
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	Finding more weak spots on the ZL1 Recently I added an upper pulley to the mods listed below (yeah the upper is on there now as well). I got a wide band tune and didn't check it on the Dyno ending up in 3 tips being melted off of the plugs. Turned out that fuel pressure was dropping off and the car went lean. I added a Kenne Bell BAP and now the fuel pressure is holding fast at 65 lbs at WOT. I have since dyno'd the car and they made about 30 pulls with it. It's making 610 HP with 601 Torque. Its an A6, I thought it would make more, but on 91 pump gas, thats about the best they could do. I added a can of Torco and they added some timing and got it up to 619 HP, but I'm not going to run Torco all the time, so I had them put the car back to safe levels on 91. The car is making 15 lbs. of boost after the pulley swaps and I recently started to notice a couple of oil drops under the car in my Shop. I have also started to notice a puff of white smoke at start up (just for a second, then it goes away). I took the car to the shop that built my car and had them check it out. The back of the motor (where it meets up with the tranny) is wet and I noticed a couple of spots where the oil was about to drip off of a bolt. They think that it is either the rear main seal or the oil pan gasket (16,000 miles on the car). They also said that the puff of smoke is either the valve seals or excess oil burning off from the blower on startup. They recommend that I install a catch can to see if it helps. They think it might be crankcase pressure from the 15 lbs. of boost and that the catch can will help with this issue. At any rate, they said that they would replace the valve seals if it does not and I think I can get the dealer to warranty the oil leak. Again, its not really bad, just a couple of drops, but now I really don't want to get into the boost for fear of further damage to the seal that is leaking. Catch can will be ordered next week. I also want to add, no work has been done to the car that would have caused this leak, so is it possible that the boost caused this issue? does this sound right to anyone on C5? __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque.

01-30-2015, 09:41 PM	#2
KaBoom1701 KaBoom1701 Drives: 13' ZL1 Red M6 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: I.E. SoCal (Yucaipa) Posts: 8,631	Catch can needed.... Your blew your rear main seal with too much pressure.... __________________ Mods: Roto-Fab Intake, WW Res. kit & Big Gulp Air Scoop, Elite Catch Can, ATI Super Damper & 18% OD Pulley, LF Idler pulley bracket, Metco CC breather, ID850 Injectors, Stainless Power Headers w/ ceramic coating, TR71X Spark Plugs, JMS Fuel Pump Booster, Bo White TB, Tuned by Ted @ Jannetty Racing, Ron Davis HX, D3 Reservoir, Pfadt 1" Springs, Moreno Camber Plates, ZL1 Addons Splitter guard washers, Tow Hook kit & rock guards, Hurst Shifter Billet Plus 6 Speed Short Shifter, ZL1 DRL lighting harness, ZL1 Recaro Seats.

01-30-2015, 09:55 PM	#3
Stephen12ZL1 Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 6,824	Catch can needed or a crankcase breather to vent the excess crankcase pressure. Otherwise, it has no where to go except to start blowing out oil seals such as the rear main, etc. At stock 8.6 psi, this isn't an issue but at 15psi there has to be a purge somewhere. Ask Smitty...he has had issue from a bad check valve in his catch can builiding crankcase pressure. He is all fixed now. __________________ '21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60' '17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold)

01-31-2015, 09:33 AM	#4
DrkPhx Drives: 2013 Triple Black ZL1 / 2006 TB SS Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: MN Posts: 2,250	The LSA is a stout motor even with mods; but it's not invunerable. Given your recent misfortune with the melted plugs; it could be pointing to a serious issue. I could see the rear seal leaking as they are prone to do that on LS motors, but usually with higher miles. It's a simple replacement, but the trans has to come out for access. The white smoke on start up could be a reason for concern. If it's indeed the valve seals, they can be replaced. If it's not just normal vapor from moisture in the exhaust, it could be an internal coolant leak. I would keep an eye on the coolant and oil level and pressure test the cooling system and do a leak down and compression test on the motor. My .02 Last edited by DrkPhx; 01-31-2015 at 11:35 AM.

01-31-2015, 06:48 PM	#10
SamHouseIII I Carry! Drives: 2013 CRT ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Fletcher, Ok Posts: 2,722	Damn James, sorry to hear that, hoping you get it figured out. __________________ I am a Modaholic!! Please Help!! Do Not feed my addicition....See build... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261540 From Oklahoma, Join us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/okcamaros/

01-31-2015, 11:06 AM	#5
1MtnGoat Drives: '12 SIM ZL1, 1 of 49 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Eastern TN Posts: 459	I had an occasional puff of white smoke on start up. I also needed to add coolant to the intercooler system. About 1/2 cup a month. There never were any external leaks. I suspected an internal leak. When they replaced the S/C I talked to the tech about it and he discovered that the o-rings which seal the piping to the "brick" in the S/C lid were leaking.

01-31-2015, 12:18 PM	#6
NicKey Drives: Nickey Super Camaro Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Loves Park, Illinois Posts: 1,686	Generally; White Smoke is Water / Coolant Blue Smoke is Oil Black Smoke is fuel If your engine got hot enough due to the over lean condition to melt the plugs, I would scope the cylinders, run a compression and leak down test, just to make certain that there are no other issues. As mentioned prior, you do need to relieve the excess crankcase pressure and yes this can be the cause of your oil leak.

01-31-2015, 12:44 PM	#7
Emvici Drives: 2014 ZL1 White Convertible Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: St Pete Fl Posts: 682	30x times on the dyno?. if it takes that many times to get things right, I would be questioning the mechanic alittle. Not to be obvious but stress on motors is what blows seals. replace the rear main seals and don't over stress the motor any more and you might be ok.

01-31-2015, 01:20 PM	#8
cbarile Drives: zl1 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: fl Posts: 40	People reading james story should really pay attention as to how important it is to get your car on a dyno to check your air/fuel along with other things after a pulley change or other mods. He could have easily melted pistons if he already hasn't. For those guys getting mail order tunes never trust a mail order tune without having your air/fuel checked no mater who the tune is from. Getting your air/fuel checked is the cheapest insurance to insure you dont hurt your motor.

01-31-2015, 08:26 PM	#11
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,090	30 passes to get a tune right is worse than 3 in my book. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter, stage 4 cam and Wilkes 11° 65cc heads Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

01-31-2015, 10:23 PM	#12
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	30 pulls have been made on the car at that shop...A few were made previously when they found out that the fuel pressure was dropping off. He took all the timing out of the car till I could get the BAP and have it installed...He checked the tune and made it safe to dive home so I could keep it in my shop till they could install the BAP. Then after the BAP was installed he made several hits on the car. he was making some adjustments to the tune and making sure the fuel pressure was holding before he started tuning on the car. We started looking at the Dyno chart because the car stops making power right at 6250 RPM's (Where the stock rev limiter was at). We compared it to several other ZL1's and CTSV's and they continued to make power up to about 6500 RPM. Then we looked at the original tune that was done on the car when it was stock with a CAI and the chart was the same up top. I am guessing that it is because I have an A6. We also compared it to my dads Lingenfelter ZL1 and his chart looks the same up top (A6 as well). I know some of the pulls they were trying to see if they could fix that power drop up top, but it seems to just be a characteristic of the A6. __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque.

02-01-2015, 07:01 AM	#13
Stephen12ZL1 Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 6,824	with the stock cam, my car is done at 6200rpm...I have never heard of a stock cam LSA pushing to 6500rpm still making power. __________________ '21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60' '17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold)

02-01-2015, 07:28 AM	#14
Chrispy 11.91 ET Bone stock Drives: 2015 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 353	Sounds like a couple of things might have happened/happening. 1 - You might have lifted the heads/warped slightly when you killed the plugs and went lean 2 - Crankcase pressure 3 - I'd have the shop do a compression check You may have hurt a ringland(s). The ZL1 is very strong but as others said not invulnerable.