Local dealer has 3 Z/28's on the floor...

[LateBrakeU2]

I'm glad they brought it back- if you've been around long enough you remember they barely got it approved for the 68 model year. Had it not been for some passionate engineers that built the one and only vert Z for GM head (and convertible freak) Pete Estes it would never have survived time. History will relate these were not available every year. I'm glad I got one, because i'm a Camaro guy, which you either get or you don't. These could very well be the last one's ever,certainly with a big cube. Props to Al and his team for making it happen one last time? . Vince Piggens would have been proud!

[Jeb114]

These zl1's and z28's. Do not make a car company. Out of the millions of cars sold in the last 30 years. 99% were the base models with 4 or 6 Cylinders.

[Lightsaber]

GM is likely trying to make ZL1's and Z/28's the halo car for Camaro's, which is the right way to go. Good publicity on these halo cars boosts the sales of that 99% of base model Camaro's.

Since they sell so few Z/28's comparing to base models (~80,000 Camaro's per year, ~2,500 Z/28's per year in North America), they don't have to be penny-pinching and try to sell them with a thick margin. Put another ~$20K into each Z/28, giving it a potent, reliable LS9 and a carbon fibre hood and lip and sell it at breakeven, so they can bigger market share for the tiny hardcore audience and make the takers of Z/28's their free advertising army.

[Jeb114]

Just came from my Chevy Dealer this morning, I asked him to run a search for how many 2015 Z/28's in New Jersey Dealer Stock he said there were 22.

[Col. Brain]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

I agree I think engineers in GM wanted this car, after building it and finding out GM priced it so high the magic disappeared. At the beginning of 2014 GM said they were building 3000 Z\28.s If they did and his numbers are correct selling half will cause a big problem for the 2016 Camaro. You got to remember this article is not from a car mag. its a financial paper and the author is pissed at stock prices and investments not the car.

At the end of the day the Z/28 is still a "Camaro"

From the financial side of things that is.

The body - shared among every other Camaro
Taillights, head lights, dashboard, steering wheel, seats (with different stitching - big whoop), an engine that has been made since 2005 and on and on.

I thought the happy sales point for the car was always 60-65k. While "lots" of parts are different from the other Camaros are they really that different?
The ZL1 has pretty much an entirely different drive train than the SS, different/expensive suspension package, a supercharger that will more than offset the exotic parts in the LS7 in terms of price. In fact i think the crate engines are similarly priced. Not something that should cost 20k more.

Brakes - okay there is a premium but 20k?

The redesign that the Z/28 ushered in was shared across every Camaro sold from 2014 and 2015.

I still believe GM shot for the moon because there was no Z Corvette to pick up those high profit margins and allowed the Z/28 to be priced there.

The problem - the ZL1, 1LE, and now the z/28 are geared for the track rats. Dodge is went out with not much of a budget and built a 700hp basically straight line star. Dodge cant build them fast enough.

The Camaro crowd wanted the LS7 in a Camaro. They didnt ask for a 75k supercar world beater.
And there were a lot of pissed off Camaro fans in here who absolutely hated the 75k sticker price as it - some viewed it as a snub to the fans who kept z28 love alive.

Take it as you will - the Z/28 has a LOT of profit built into it from my POV (and im a mfg accountant by trade). I could see a 20% discount coming back

[Col. Brain]

Originally Posted by Lightsaber

GM is likely trying to make ZL1's and Z/28's the halo car for Camaro's, which is the right way to go. Good publicity on these halo cars boosts the sales of that 99% of base model Camaro's.

Since they sell so few Z/28's comparing to base models (~80,000 Camaro's per year, ~2,500 Z/28's per year in North America), they don't have to be penny-pinching and try to sell them with a thick margin. Put another ~$20K into each Z/28, giving it a potent, reliable LS9 and a carbon fibre hood and lip and sell it at breakeven, so they can bigger market share for the tiny hardcore audience and make the takers of Z/28's their free advertising army.

And the Z cars should be the halos

But for gen 6 i hope the ZL1 is more like the Hellcat - straight line car with big HP and able to corner nicely

Z/28 - just what the 5th gen Z/28 is - road course monster

Lets consumers decide what car they want and sell accordingly.
Also no more 75k Camaros unless its the COPO S/S car or a road race only car

[90503]

IMO the Z/28 was a result of the fantastic success of the entire 5thGen, and not a model that would make or break the brand one way or the other....I don't believe they ever intended for demand to outstrip supply....It was a once in a lifetime combination of stars aligning from everything including available parts to determined engineers who wanted this car built...

These could be the last of the Mohicans and never built like this again....If dealers are treating them like some disposable item that is in their way or whatever, then no biggie....Perhaps a low ebb now as a flavor of the week, but the car itself will stand the test of time...

It's not a deal-breaker for the Camaro brand one way or the other....

[ZL1-V]

Originally Posted by superstockcam

thanks for the replies, my friend who bought a ZL1 at MSRP + 5k has real buyers remorse... so I'll wait

Your "friend" simply hasn't learned how to "play the game" with the dealership. I paid 800 under invoice for my 2013. If you are patient you'll be rewarded, the key is to not become desperate.

[United_727]

A Z28 is not a very practical car,it will never sell like crazy . There is a limited market for people who want to pay $75k for 'a Camaro'. Plus,hard ride and no trunk trim . It's a track car that can be driven on the street.

[Chad's ZL1]

There is a z28 in woodland California red and black for $72k
6k miles

[johnr265]

Obviously, the guys in that blog just don't "get it". This is a car that for most people, just doesn't make sense on paper. Unless you are a track rat (I am), much of that detail of the blood, sweat, and tears GM put into the cars is meaningless. However, you don't need to appreciate the statistics or the technology to get behind the wheel and feel how immediately special the car is. I think the price tag does put a lot of people off who would consider it a bargain if they only drove it. Initially, I was one of those people.

I remember the first time I read an article about the Z/28. In my head, I immediately said, nah, not interested. Then a track guy whom I really respected did a review of the car and highlighted what it really was (some of the best technology available for the price and actually quite a bargain, even at 75k) and I began to think about it as a real option. For anyone who has ever built a track car, the formula goes like this. Buy a 30k car (yup, so far so good). Then add 40K in upgrades. End up with a great track car (maybe if you have a good shop helping you). Then when you are ready to sell, it is worth, wait for it.... about 30k.

Here, you get the factory engineers and their expertise creating the ultimate package with a factory warranty, and yes, charging appropriately for it. Then, at least resale starts with depreciation from 75k, not trying to add value to a 30k car. I have driven and owned some pretty nice cars (many over 6 figures). This car is as special as any of them. The grin it puts on my face is absolutely priceless. I actually think over time, this car will be worth the SAME or more than the Z06 which won't be made in limited numbers. Despite the Z06 actually being faster, it just doesn't have that special, one off mystique and rawness that the Z/28 has. Consider Porsche GT3 prices vs 911 Turbo prices. The GT3 easily holds it's value better even though the turbo is in essence, a faster car.

I will own other great cars but I intend to hold onto this car for a while. It is the embodiment of the ultimate car guys car. Period. There will be faster. There will be lighter. There will be better interiors. But arguably, there may not be any more special than what this car represents and I do believe some day, people will look back and whine, "man, I remember when I could've gotten that car at 75k. They were just sitting at dealer lots."

[Jeb114]

Originally Posted by johnr265

Obviously, the guys in that blog just don't "get it". This is a car that for most people, just doesn't make sense on paper. Unless you are a track rat (I am), much of that detail of the blood, sweat, and tears GM put into the cars is meaningless. However, you don't need to appreciate the statistics or the technology to get behind the wheel and feel how immediately special the car is. I think the price tag does put a lot of people off who would consider it a bargain if they only drove it. Initially, I was one of those people.

I remember the first time I read an article about the Z/28. In my head, I immediately said, nah, not interested. Then a track guy whom I really respected did a review of the car and highlighted what it really was (some of the best technology available for the price and actually quite a bargain, even at 75k) and I began to think about it as a real option. For anyone who has ever built a track car, the formula goes like this. Buy a 30k car (yup, so far so good). Then add 40K in upgrades. End up with a great track car (maybe if you have a good shop helping you). Then when you are ready to sell, it is worth, wait for it.... about 30k.

Here, you get the factory engineers and their expertise creating the ultimate package with a factory warranty, and yes, charging appropriately for it. Then, at least resale starts with depreciation from 75k, not trying to add value to a 30k car. I have driven and owned some pretty nice cars (many over 6 figures). This car is as special as any of them. The grin it puts on my face is absolutely priceless. I actually think over time, this car will be worth the SAME or more than the Z06 which won't be made in limited numbers. Despite the Z06 actually being faster, it just doesn't have that special, one off mystique and rawness that the Z/28 has. Consider Porsche GT3 prices vs 911 Turbo prices. The GT3 easily holds it's value better even though the turbo is in essence, a faster car.

I will own other great cars but I intend to hold onto this car for a while. It is the embodiment of the ultimate car guys car. Period. There will be faster. There will be lighter. There will be better interiors. But arguably, there may not be any more special than what this car represents and I do believe some day, people will look back and whine, "man, I remember when I could've gotten that car at 75k. They were just sitting at dealer lots."

Good comments, I understand your thoughts, My disagreement is the ZL1 was the best they could do at the time and charged $56,000 all the engineering done for that car was reflected in the price. The Z/28 is that car with items removed. I agree there are different tweaks to the Z/28. That said adding $20.000 to the car was abusive to the customer. My son said it best, Dad replace the ZL 1 callouts with Z/28 callouts and a new grille emblem and you will have a better Z/28 than the factory builds.

[andig]

Originally Posted by johnr265

Obviously, the guys in that blog just don't "get it". This is a car that for most people, just doesn't make sense on paper. Unless you are a track rat (I am), much of that detail of the blood, sweat, and tears GM put into the cars is meaningless. However, you don't need to appreciate the statistics or the technology to get behind the wheel and feel how immediately special the car is. I think the price tag does put a lot of people off who would consider it a bargain if they only drove it. Initially, I was one of those people.

I remember the first time I read an article about the Z/28. In my head, I immediately said, nah, not interested. Then a track guy whom I really respected did a review of the car and highlighted what it really was (some of the best technology available for the price and actually quite a bargain, even at 75k) and I began to think about it as a real option. For anyone who has ever built a track car, the formula goes like this. Buy a 30k car (yup, so far so good). Then add 40K in upgrades. End up with a great track car (maybe if you have a good shop helping you). Then when you are ready to sell, it is worth, wait for it.... about 30k.

Here, you get the factory engineers and their expertise creating the ultimate package with a factory warranty, and yes, charging appropriately for it. Then, at least resale starts with depreciation from 75k, not trying to add value to a 30k car. I have driven and owned some pretty nice cars (many over 6 figures). This car is as special as any of them. The grin it puts on my face is absolutely priceless. I actually think over time, this car will be worth the SAME or more than the Z06 which won't be made in limited numbers. Despite the Z06 actually being faster, it just doesn't have that special, one off mystique and rawness that the Z/28 has. Consider Porsche GT3 prices vs 911 Turbo prices. The GT3 easily holds it's value better even though the turbo is in essence, a faster car.

I will own other great cars but I intend to hold onto this car for a while. It is the embodiment of the ultimate car guys car. Period. There will be faster. There will be lighter. There will be better interiors. But arguably, there may not be any more special than what this car represents and I do believe some day, people will look back and whine, "man, I remember when I could've gotten that car at 75k. They were just sitting at dealer lots."

John - Perfectly summed up!
Like you, I have been lucky enough to own a variety of nice cars over the years, ranging from Lotus, Porsche 911, Audi R8, Cobra's and other American muscle. The Z/28 is one very special car and the effort the GM engineer's put into it and the result is frankly amazing. To get in and drive it is very special. It is hardcore and I accept that is a car that you either get it or you don't.
To a lot of folk it is just an exhorbitantly priced Camaro with a poor level of equipment who ask the question "why did you blow $70k on that when you could have had a ZL1....Z06....Hellcat.....M3 etc etc for a similar price or less?"
For me the answer is simple in that I had no interest in any of the aforementioned excellent cars as I wanted something hardcore that I could track but use daily as well and the Z/28 is an absolute bargain compared to a new GTR or 911 GT3.

Andy

[Lightsaber]

Originally Posted by andig

John - Perfectly summed up!
Like you, I have been lucky enough to own a variety of nice cars over the years, ranging from Lotus, Porsche 911, Audi R8, Cobra's and other American muscle. The Z/28 is one very special car and the effort the GM engineer's put into it and the result is frankly amazing. To get in and drive it is very special. It is hardcore and I accept that is a car that you either get it or you don't.
To a lot of folk it is just an exhorbitantly priced Camaro with a poor level of equipment who ask the question "why did you blow $70k on that when you could have had a ZL1....Z06....Hellcat.....M3 etc etc for a similar price or less?"
For me the answer is simple in that I had no interest in any of the aforementioned excellent cars as I wanted something hardcore that I could track but use daily as well and the Z/28 is an absolute bargain compared to a new GTR or 911 GT3.

Andy

There are poser cars and cars for true enthusiasts (purists). Let the posers get poser cars and true enthusiasts get true enthusiast's cars.