This is how Chevy treats my $45,000 "track ready" car - Page 24 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

tw78911sc · 02-12-2015, 05:17 PM

alex70olds · 02-12-2015, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw78911sc

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OMG, dude, thanks for sharing LMFAO!

matt55 · 02-13-2015, 01:03 PM

Definitely a factory defect lol.

gajagfan · 02-13-2015, 01:18 PM

First off, there is not a lick of sense in any of those guys, or this was staged. Surely someone would have stopped the idiot behind the wheel. Two, I wonder how this would happen? Clutch worn out to start with?

backeddy · 02-13-2015, 10:41 PM

"goodbye $600" priceless...............

snarky · 02-14-2015, 05:18 PM

DCZ1LE · 02-17-2015, 12:00 AM

I've read this whole thread and I see two basic issues:

What does the warranty cover
What should the warranty cover

I'm not sure if there is real disagreement in principle, or if it's more a matter of degree.

Is there consensus on the following?:

Do ZL1's and Z28's come with a separate, additional, unique Track Warranty?
Does the warranty for the ZL1 and Z28 exclude "Competition" and "Racing" same as my 1LE warranty does?

I think there is agreement that the warranty does not (and probably should not) cover abuse whether on track or street. So consider the following driving conditions and what appears to be the general consensus:

Street, Moderate Driving: Should be covered
Street, Abuse: Should not be covered
Track, Moderate Driving: ???
Track, Abuse: Should not be covered
Racing, Competition: Is not covered

I don't list abuse as an option for racing/competition because I think by the very nature, racing is abusive. In a competition, men and machines are pushed to the limits. In fact, the whole point of a competition is to test those limits - limits of the machine - tires, wheels, drivetrains; men, teams, strategies--push until something breaks.

So we have the idea of not covering abuse (and by extension, racing). There seems to be consensus about this and it's consistent with what we see in the warranty limitations.

And here I think is where there may be disagreement: Is all track use, by it's nature, abuse? If you push a car hard is it abuse? Can you push a car hard for hours without abusing it? Is it simply unfair to expect the manufacturer to warrant track use because of the possibility of abuse? Is it unreasonable for a 1LE owner to expect that track use (short of abuse) should be covered?

The easy answer might be to say track equals abuse. Not because we won't acknowledge that some drivers drive great without hurting their cars, but we could see from a manufacturer's standpoint that track use means hard driving and how can anyone say who's really at fault?

But I can see where someone could make the case that hard driving on the track is different from racing and (short of abuse) should be covered. You can track without trying to break anything, without pushing the car to it's limit and beyond.

Consider a Chevy truck designed for towing. With a big V8 and big brakes. Now hook up a heavy load and pull it through a mountain pass. It will spend hours with the engine and trans at max temp, the brakes constantly pushed to their limit. One could go many hours like this between gas stations or rest areas.

This kind of performance is expected of our trucks. Have you seen truck commercials?

So (forgive me the terribly tortured physics) in general terms isn't it kind of the same whether you're moving 4,000 lbs at 80 mph or moving 8,000 lbs at 40 mph? Why should we equate high speed with abuse? Isn't it just as much about loads, pressures, and temperatures?

Here I could see a track day as a long day of towing. And certainly the 1LE could be outfitted to run hard and brake hard for hours. Not that the brakes won't fade, but they also won't fail.

Is this how the 1LE was designed? Is this how the 1LE was marketed?

Is it reasonable for a 1LE owner to check the "Should be covered" box for moderate track driving?

backeddy · 02-18-2015, 10:41 PM

They wield the "abuse" axe to save $$$$ that's all. In no way was my car "abused" on the very first high rpm 2-3 shift. They said "abused" because rubber was on my wheel wells, which happens as soon as the tires get hot and you up the g-force on the track. I have never even done a burn out in my car, so to classify rubber alone as "abuse", is ridiculous and hence my reason for this thread and it's title....

gajagfan · 02-19-2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backeddy

They wield the "abuse" axe to save $$$$ that's all. In no way was my car "abused" on the very first high rpm 2-3 shift. They said "abused" because rubber was on my wheel wells, which happens as soon as the tires get hot and you up the g-force on the track. I have never even done a burn out in my car, so to classify rubber alone as "abuse", is ridiculous and hence my reason for this thread and it's title....

As you have stated before, this problem happened on the first high RPM shift from 2 to 3. Also, as you have stated, this shift occurred on the track because you do not want to drive like that on the street. How did rubber get in your wheel wells if you stopped driving after the first time you had a problem with the 2 - 3 shift? Don't you think that driving the car with the problem could be considered abuse? You admitted the car had a problem but you continued to operate the car.....does that not seem odd looking back? Do you not think that if you had stopped when the problem showed up, and gone right to the dealer, you would have gotten a different result? I mean, after all, there would have been no rummer in the wheel wells right?

Bizaro · 02-19-2015, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajagfan

As you have stated before, this problem happened on the first high RPM shift from 2 to 3. Also, as you have stated, this shift occurred on the track because you do not want to drive like that on the street. How did rubber get in your wheel wells if you stopped driving after the first time you had a problem with the 2 - 3 shift? Don't you think that driving the car with the problem could be considered abuse? You admitted the car had a problem but you continued to operate the car.....does that not seem odd looking back? Do you not think that if you had stopped when the problem showed up, and gone right to the dealer, you would have gotten a different result? I mean, after all, there would have been no rummer in the wheel wells right?

He bought the wheel wells with the rest of the end body off another camaro and forgot to take off the rubber that was there from previous owners abuse.

gajagfan · 02-19-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bizaro

He bought the wheel wells with the rest of the end body off another camaro and forgot to take off the rubber that was there from previous owners abuse.

Please tell me you are joking......and if so....good one!

backeddy · 02-20-2015, 12:03 AM

Nope, I did not stop, I had no idea that it was an issue (could have missed a shift, not pushed the clutch in etc), so I finished my track day. As I stated many times, I figured the "track ready" car would be covered, so why would I worry. Rubber on the wheel wells is from hot tires sliding, so it was in the wheel wells by turn 8 on the first lap, long before the straightaway where it first appears.

gajagfan · 02-20-2015, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backeddy

Nope, I did not stop, I had no idea that it was an issue (could have missed a shift, not pushed the clutch in etc), so I finished my track day. As I stated many times, I figured the "track ready" car would be covered, so why would I worry. Rubber on the wheel wells is from hot tires sliding, so it was in the wheel wells by turn 8 on the first lap, long before the straightaway where it first appears.

So you had built up enough speed and heat in the tires on that first lap to cause rubber to be in the wheel wells on the first lap but had not put the car in third gear at high RPM? I am just trying to figure out what happened to your car.

Track ready car or not, if you have a major issue with a car like you faced in yours, continuing to drive it is abuse. 100% abuse. If it happens on the street, the strip, or road course, its abuse and no manufacturer should have to stand behind it.

Tabloma · 02-20-2015, 11:30 PM

I am no 1LE expert but I am a Track rat and have plenty of experience with C5 C6 Vettes. My 2008 Z06 says in the owners manual if tracked the clutch fluid needs to changed every 2000 miles or 6 months ( not sure on the months). The Vette forum say change it after every track event even drag racing. So If The 1LE has a hydraulic clutch I am sure the same applies. I can tell you if you put your car on a lift, and truly been to Laguna Seca 3 times for more than one lap each time, your car is not Mint like you say. The sticky tires will cause marring in the paint down low, The front bumper will have the same from debris flying around the track and the bottom will have black marks all over it from rubber on the track. Mint cars and track day car use are mutually exclusive. If you don't believe me, lay on floor and look up at your paint with a bright light. Dealers are not stupid.

02-13-2015, 01:03 PM	#325
matt55 Drives: CTS-V Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 1,069	Definitely a factory defect lol. __________________ 10.8@130.8 610 whp, CAI, 2.5, E85, id850 on street tires.

02-17-2015, 12:00 AM	#329
DCZ1LE Drives: 2015 Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Hillsboro, OR Posts: 41	I've read this whole thread and I see two basic issues: What does the warranty cover What should the warranty cover I'm not sure if there is real disagreement in principle, or if it's more a matter of degree. Is there consensus on the following?: Do ZL1's and Z28's come with a separate, additional, unique Track Warranty? Does the warranty for the ZL1 and Z28 exclude "Competition" and "Racing" same as my 1LE warranty does? I think there is agreement that the warranty does not (and probably should not) cover abuse whether on track or street. So consider the following driving conditions and what appears to be the general consensus: Street, Moderate Driving: Should be covered Street, Abuse: Should not be covered Track, Moderate Driving: ??? Track, Abuse: Should not be covered Racing, Competition: Is not covered I don't list abuse as an option for racing/competition because I think by the very nature, racing is abusive. In a competition, men and machines are pushed to the limits. In fact, the whole point of a competition is to test those limits - limits of the machine - tires, wheels, drivetrains; men, teams, strategies--push until something breaks. So we have the idea of not covering abuse (and by extension, racing). There seems to be consensus about this and it's consistent with what we see in the warranty limitations. And here I think is where there may be disagreement: Is all track use, by it's nature, abuse? If you push a car hard is it abuse? Can you push a car hard for hours without abusing it? Is it simply unfair to expect the manufacturer to warrant track use because of the possibility of abuse? Is it unreasonable for a 1LE owner to expect that track use (short of abuse) should be covered? The easy answer might be to say track equals abuse. Not because we won't acknowledge that some drivers drive great without hurting their cars, but we could see from a manufacturer's standpoint that track use means hard driving and how can anyone say who's really at fault? But I can see where someone could make the case that hard driving on the track is different from racing and (short of abuse) should be covered. You can track without trying to break anything, without pushing the car to it's limit and beyond. Consider a Chevy truck designed for towing. With a big V8 and big brakes. Now hook up a heavy load and pull it through a mountain pass. It will spend hours with the engine and trans at max temp, the brakes constantly pushed to their limit. One could go many hours like this between gas stations or rest areas. This kind of performance is expected of our trucks. Have you seen truck commercials? So (forgive me the terribly tortured physics) in general terms isn't it kind of the same whether you're moving 4,000 lbs at 80 mph or moving 8,000 lbs at 40 mph? Why should we equate high speed with abuse? Isn't it just as much about loads, pressures, and temperatures? Here I could see a track day as a long day of towing. And certainly the 1LE could be outfitted to run hard and brake hard for hours. Not that the brakes won't fade, but they also won't fail. Is this how the 1LE was designed? Is this how the 1LE was marketed? Is it reasonable for a 1LE owner to check the "Should be covered" box for moderate track driving?

02-13-2015, 01:18 PM	#326
gajagfan Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Black - Std Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Brunswick, GA Posts: 3,622 View My Garage	First off, there is not a lick of sense in any of those guys, or this was staged. Surely someone would have stopped the idiot behind the wheel. Two, I wonder how this would happen? Clutch worn out to start with?

02-13-2015, 10:41 PM	#327
backeddy Banned Drives: 2011 Boxster Spyder (best car ever) Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 1,529	"goodbye $600" priceless...............

02-14-2015, 05:18 PM	#328
snarky ultracrepidarianism Drives: '14 1SS/RS/1LE/NPP '18 Accord Sport Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: where folks drive like shit Posts: 1,297

02-18-2015, 10:41 PM	#330
backeddy Banned Drives: 2011 Boxster Spyder (best car ever) Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 1,529	They wield the "abuse" axe to save $$$$ that's all. In no way was my car "abused" on the very first high rpm 2-3 shift. They said "abused" because rubber was on my wheel wells, which happens as soon as the tires get hot and you up the g-force on the track. I have never even done a burn out in my car, so to classify rubber alone as "abuse", is ridiculous and hence my reason for this thread and it's title....

02-20-2015, 12:03 AM	#334
backeddy Banned Drives: 2011 Boxster Spyder (best car ever) Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 1,529	Nope, I did not stop, I had no idea that it was an issue (could have missed a shift, not pushed the clutch in etc), so I finished my track day. As I stated many times, I figured the "track ready" car would be covered, so why would I worry. Rubber on the wheel wells is from hot tires sliding, so it was in the wheel wells by turn 8 on the first lap, long before the straightaway where it first appears.

02-20-2015, 11:30 PM	#336
Tabloma Drives: Red ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Illinois Posts: 174	I am no 1LE expert but I am a Track rat and have plenty of experience with C5 C6 Vettes. My 2008 Z06 says in the owners manual if tracked the clutch fluid needs to changed every 2000 miles or 6 months ( not sure on the months). The Vette forum say change it after every track event even drag racing. So If The 1LE has a hydraulic clutch I am sure the same applies. I can tell you if you put your car on a lift, and truly been to Laguna Seca 3 times for more than one lap each time, your car is not Mint like you say. The sticky tires will cause marring in the paint down low, The front bumper will have the same from debris flying around the track and the bottom will have black marks all over it from rubber on the track. Mint cars and track day car use are mutually exclusive. If you don't believe me, lay on floor and look up at your paint with a bright light. Dealers are not stupid.