Koni Oranges + 275's in front - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Destructo09 · 03-23-2015, 09:05 PM

Here's a pic of where it's rubbing, it's not on the shock tube itself which is where I would have suspected also.

The OEM strut did have a VERY light rub mark on it, but it obviously wasn't enough that he noticed while driving.

I think it might be questionable whether less camber or even a small spacer would help here.

forklord · 03-23-2015, 09:36 PM

Thats very strange. Looks like the perch is dented or something. Your tires are definitely gonna sit a lot closer to the strut with that offset/width but being that close to the perch isnt just camber or spacing imo. A knuckle drop and itd be undriveable
...another reason to go coilover. Theyre smaller and fit better usually.

Destructo09 · 03-23-2015, 10:56 PM

The perch is shaped pretty closely to how the OEM strut was shaped, but something is a little different dimension wise for sure.

bannonm · 03-24-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonchopper

Question, for anyone who's still reading:

I was under the impression that the issue with rubbing was normally from the sidewall rubbing the strut cylinder -- not the spring perch. Are the two essentially the same, or is it possible there might be something else wrong? I'm concerned that a spacer won't fix the issue, primarily, because the rubbing is happening on the spring perch, not the shock cylinder itself.

In my case, rubbing the strut was case not what you are showing. That picture does not look right. How is that perch set on the strut in comparison to the OEM strut? Lower?

IMO, a spacer would have to be fairly thick to set the wheel out far enough to clear that. Camber plate would likely work better and you could jack the top of the strut inboard as far as needed to move that perch away from the tire. You may not get the benefit of higher camber adjustments since you'd use up the adjustment just to clear the tire. Use the OEM camber adjustment to move the top of the tire out and away from the perch and get it in spec. Hopefully that isn't confusing what I'm saying.

Moonchopper · 03-24-2015, 10:03 AM

I can only imagine that this is due to either my tires being too tall, or the strut being too short from knuckle to spring perch (which seems ridiculous, and I truly hope is not the case).

In the meantime, I remembered I have the 20x8 factory wheels with tires that have good tread on them available, so I might just swap those in for this weekend while I mull this over more. (assuming they won't rub, either)

Destructo is also getting some 275/40R20s mounted to my factory 20x9's (I was planning on selling them to him) to see if he experiences the same issue - I'm thinking that if he's able to clear the spring perch without a problem, it will shed a little more light on what the issue is. Maybe it's as simple as this tire/tire size/strut combination not being compatible. Who knows.

Moonchopper · 03-24-2015, 10:48 AM

Also, to be clear, I'm not averse to using camber plates -- if I can keep the 275's in the front, then I plan on it. But I'm concerned that, given that I'm rubbing the spring perch, camber plates won't help, as it seems to be a clearance issue at the top of the tire, not the side. I'd hate to buy them only to find out they won't help at all.

bannonm · 03-24-2015, 11:14 AM

You might be able to test that by using the OEM camber adjustment and push the top of the tire all the way out. See if that gives you the clearance you need. Yes, the camber will be off, but then you can judge if camber plates will help pull the top back in and get you the alignment you need. Just mark the strut where it's sitting now so you can return it back to the original setting.

Moonchopper · 03-24-2015, 11:29 AM

I'll have ample time to do that next week, which I very likely will. I'm also going to measure the knuckle to the perch and compare it to OEM. If it's too much of a difference, I might have to ask Koni about it.

In any case, I appreciate your time - I'll report back any findings I may have, in case anyone else comes across this thread looking for help.

JDP Sales · 03-24-2015, 02:00 PM

The tire is too tall. What size tire are you using?

Best regards.

Tyler
888-308-6007

Rob@WretchedMS · 03-24-2015, 02:36 PM

Installing Camber plates will help a bit since you can lean the strut in more, but will likely still hit a bit.

If the rear tires are the same size, are they worn more?
If they are rotate them to the front.

Moonchopper · 03-24-2015, 02:48 PM

I literally just bought these tires and had them installed last Wednesday/Thursday - They're Continental Extreme Contact DW, 275/40R20 on all 4 sides. Both front tires rub. 20x9 IVS Havoc wheels all the way around (Rear OEM sizes).

If these tires are too tall, then I would imagine that anyone else running a square setup with these tires would see these issues, regardless of the struts (thought perhaps less noticeable with OEM struts), which certainly seems possible. My OEM struts didn't rub nearly as much, however, so that leads me to believe the Konis might have slightly different dimensions.

Rob@WretchedMS · 03-24-2015, 02:58 PM

a little occasional contact isn't typically a big deal, but the amount you have is an issue as it will create a ton of friction/heat.

The options at this point that i see are: (in no order)

Modify the strut
camber plates, and adjust camber more negative (not sure how much more room you will gain)
smaller tires
have the tires shaved (not ideal, and not a fix)
go to a different strut/coilover.

Moonchopper · 03-24-2015, 06:57 PM

Are coilover's a safe bet? i.e. is it near guaranteed that they would resolve my rubbing issue? Logically, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't. I'm really hoping to keep the 275s in the front, and from what I can tell, coilovers will have much fewer clearance issues than the struts I have currently, along with providing better ride quality, performance, and customization. (The idea was always to go with Coilovers eventually, but I found a good deal on these Konis...)

I see that the BC Racing coilovers are popular (and are attractive to me from a pricepoint) - I've perused a couple links from a brief search, and I've browsed a few vendors for these coilovers. Do I need to be concerned with sprint rates and such with a coilover suspension? Or, perhaps even better, does anyone have a recommendation for some somewhat-easy reading so I can figure out what kind of springs/valving/what-have-you I will need? I'm a novice Autocrosser/tracker, so I don't need anything insane, but I'd like to have a little room for growth if at all possible so I'm not buying new coilovers in the next year or so.

Rob@WretchedMS · 03-24-2015, 10:43 PM

in most cases coilovers will offer you more clearance, lowering the car a moderate amount should work well with coilovers, however lowering it a lot can bring the spring down beside the tire and cause clearance issues with your wheels. So it's a matter of how low you set them up.

for most people the standard spring rates are the best option, i offer the various spring rates and valving rates as an option for my customers, but in most cases, the default settings are the best.

03-23-2015, 09:05 PM	#15
Destructo09 Drives: 2010 CGM Camaro 2SS/LS3 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Raleigh-Durham Posts: 1,409	Here's a pic of where it's rubbing, it's not on the shock tube itself which is where I would have suspected also. The OEM strut did have a VERY light rub mark on it, but it obviously wasn't enough that he noticed while driving. I think it might be questionable whether less camber or even a small spacer would help here. Attached Images __________________ 2010 2SS BMR 1" Springs Koni Orange struts/shocks 1LE rear sway bar SRP Racing Pedals Hurst Billet short shifter Square tire/wheel setup Elite Engineering Catch Can Stainless Power longtubes/highflow cats K&N Typhoon CAI RPM Motorsports of Garner, NC dyno tune (421 RWHP)

03-23-2015, 09:36 PM	#16
forklord Drives: 2010 2SS Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 800	Thats very strange. Looks like the perch is dented or something. Your tires are definitely gonna sit a lot closer to the strut with that offset/width but being that close to the perch isnt just camber or spacing imo. A knuckle drop and itd be undriveable ...another reason to go coilover. Theyre smaller and fit better usually. __________________ 2010 2SS- 562whp/634wtq 12 psi on3 turbo 78mm magnum /w aem truboost, pat g cam, Kooks 3" catback, Factory Rep 41s with 285/315 20" michelin PSS, Snow Meth, Hex Hood Vents, ZL1 FP & ADM FPCM /w JMS BAP, ID 850s, DSS lvl 4 axles & aluminum 1 piece D/S, Total Pro BMR bushings, fe4 sways, toe rods & trailing arms, Prothane engine mounts, MGW shifter, eaton true trac, mantic 9000 clutch, idealg master cylinder, JDP clutch oil reservoir, ram clutch pedal adjust, Tick clutch & bleed lines, Dewitts Rad

03-23-2015, 10:56 PM	#17
Destructo09 Drives: 2010 CGM Camaro 2SS/LS3 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Raleigh-Durham Posts: 1,409	The perch is shaped pretty closely to how the OEM strut was shaped, but something is a little different dimension wise for sure. __________________ 2010 2SS BMR 1" Springs Koni Orange struts/shocks 1LE rear sway bar SRP Racing Pedals Hurst Billet short shifter Square tire/wheel setup Elite Engineering Catch Can Stainless Power longtubes/highflow cats K&N Typhoon CAI RPM Motorsports of Garner, NC dyno tune (421 RWHP)

03-24-2015, 10:03 AM	#19
Moonchopper Drives: 2010 RJT Camaro SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC Posts: 150	I can only imagine that this is due to either my tires being too tall, or the strut being too short from knuckle to spring perch (which seems ridiculous, and I truly hope is not the case). In the meantime, I remembered I have the 20x8 factory wheels with tires that have good tread on them available, so I might just swap those in for this weekend while I mull this over more. (assuming they won't rub, either) Destructo is also getting some 275/40R20s mounted to my factory 20x9's (I was planning on selling them to him) to see if he experiences the same issue - I'm thinking that if he's able to clear the spring perch without a problem, it will shed a little more light on what the issue is. Maybe it's as simple as this tire/tire size/strut combination not being compatible. Who knows. __________________ 2010 LS3 Camaro 2SS/RS CAI Intake Stainless works LT headers Borla S-Type exhaust Elite Engineering catch can Hurst short-throw shifter BC Racing Type BR Coilovers Dyno tuned @ 423 RWHP

03-24-2015, 10:48 AM	#20
Moonchopper Drives: 2010 RJT Camaro SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC Posts: 150	Also, to be clear, I'm not averse to using camber plates -- if I can keep the 275's in the front, then I plan on it. But I'm concerned that, given that I'm rubbing the spring perch, camber plates won't help, as it seems to be a clearance issue at the top of the tire, not the side. I'd hate to buy them only to find out they won't help at all. __________________ 2010 LS3 Camaro 2SS/RS CAI Intake Stainless works LT headers Borla S-Type exhaust Elite Engineering catch can Hurst short-throw shifter BC Racing Type BR Coilovers Dyno tuned @ 423 RWHP

03-24-2015, 11:14 AM	#21
bannonm Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,536	You might be able to test that by using the OEM camber adjustment and push the top of the tire all the way out. See if that gives you the clearance you need. Yes, the camber will be off, but then you can judge if camber plates will help pull the top back in and get you the alignment you need. Just mark the strut where it's sitting now so you can return it back to the original setting. __________________

03-24-2015, 11:29 AM	#22
Moonchopper Drives: 2010 RJT Camaro SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC Posts: 150	I'll have ample time to do that next week, which I very likely will. I'm also going to measure the knuckle to the perch and compare it to OEM. If it's too much of a difference, I might have to ask Koni about it. In any case, I appreciate your time - I'll report back any findings I may have, in case anyone else comes across this thread looking for help. __________________ 2010 LS3 Camaro 2SS/RS CAI Intake Stainless works LT headers Borla S-Type exhaust Elite Engineering catch can Hurst short-throw shifter BC Racing Type BR Coilovers Dyno tuned @ 423 RWHP

03-24-2015, 02:00 PM	#23
JDP Sales Drives: Chevys at the limit Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 9,621	The tire is too tall. What size tire are you using? Best regards. Tyler 888-308-6007

03-24-2015, 02:36 PM	#24
Rob@WretchedMS Drives: His Wife Crazy Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson Posts: 1,789	Installing Camber plates will help a bit since you can lean the strut in more, but will likely still hit a bit. If the rear tires are the same size, are they worn more? If they are rotate them to the front.

03-24-2015, 02:48 PM	#25
Moonchopper Drives: 2010 RJT Camaro SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC Posts: 150	I literally just bought these tires and had them installed last Wednesday/Thursday - They're Continental Extreme Contact DW, 275/40R20 on all 4 sides. Both front tires rub. 20x9 IVS Havoc wheels all the way around (Rear OEM sizes). If these tires are too tall, then I would imagine that anyone else running a square setup with these tires would see these issues, regardless of the struts (thought perhaps less noticeable with OEM struts), which certainly seems possible. My OEM struts didn't rub nearly as much, however, so that leads me to believe the Konis might have slightly different dimensions. __________________ 2010 LS3 Camaro 2SS/RS CAI Intake Stainless works LT headers Borla S-Type exhaust Elite Engineering catch can Hurst short-throw shifter BC Racing Type BR Coilovers Dyno tuned @ 423 RWHP Last edited by Moonchopper; 03-24-2015 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Clarity

03-24-2015, 02:58 PM	#26
Rob@WretchedMS Drives: His Wife Crazy Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson Posts: 1,789	a little occasional contact isn't typically a big deal, but the amount you have is an issue as it will create a ton of friction/heat. The options at this point that i see are: (in no order) Modify the strut camber plates, and adjust camber more negative (not sure how much more room you will gain) smaller tires have the tires shaved (not ideal, and not a fix) go to a different strut/coilover.

03-24-2015, 06:57 PM	#27
Moonchopper Drives: 2010 RJT Camaro SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC Posts: 150	Are coilover's a safe bet? i.e. is it near guaranteed that they would resolve my rubbing issue? Logically, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't. I'm really hoping to keep the 275s in the front, and from what I can tell, coilovers will have much fewer clearance issues than the struts I have currently, along with providing better ride quality, performance, and customization. (The idea was always to go with Coilovers eventually, but I found a good deal on these Konis...) I see that the BC Racing coilovers are popular (and are attractive to me from a pricepoint) - I've perused a couple links from a brief search, and I've browsed a few vendors for these coilovers. Do I need to be concerned with sprint rates and such with a coilover suspension? Or, perhaps even better, does anyone have a recommendation for some somewhat-easy reading so I can figure out what kind of springs/valving/what-have-you I will need? I'm a novice Autocrosser/tracker, so I don't need anything insane, but I'd like to have a little room for growth if at all possible so I'm not buying new coilovers in the next year or so. __________________ 2010 LS3 Camaro 2SS/RS CAI Intake Stainless works LT headers Borla S-Type exhaust Elite Engineering catch can Hurst short-throw shifter BC Racing Type BR Coilovers Dyno tuned @ 423 RWHP

03-24-2015, 10:43 PM	#28
Rob@WretchedMS Drives: His Wife Crazy Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson Posts: 1,789	in most cases coilovers will offer you more clearance, lowering the car a moderate amount should work well with coilovers, however lowering it a lot can bring the spring down beside the tire and cause clearance issues with your wheels. So it's a matter of how low you set them up. for most people the standard spring rates are the best option, i offer the various spring rates and valving rates as an option for my customers, but in most cases, the default settings are the best.